I am tired of playing - the gloves are coming off.

[MichaelT.]

BL, Here is your words ( and don't try to resort back to semantics to say they are not your words but Gods words, YOU KNOW WHAT WE MEAN.... WORDS YOU POSTED. )

Man does not have a free will, but instead that is a lie told by our pastors that is condeming us.

Now then, explain this......

You say that God is Soverign, and His will be done means that His Will is always done.

You go on to say that man is without free will, which Was actually given to man by God at creation but we will say that your thoughts are true for the sake of discussion.

Now, here is the rub in your statements. Follow closely.

God created the Garden of EDEN, and Adam and EVE. He did not give them free will, according to you. God is Soverign and His will is always done, according to you. But God instructed ( commanded )Adam and Eve to NOT EAT OF THE TREE. Now if we do not have free will, and His will is always done, THEN WHY DID THEY EAT OF THE TREE.

YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS BL....IT IS ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT NOT BOTH. WHICH IS IT BL, DO WE HAVE FREE WILL OR IS GOD'S WILL NOT ALWAYS DONE.

STEP CAREFULLY. As Jesus said to the false teachers at the temple... Answer me this...

MET

[muley69]

The would be no reason for God not to give man free will, for what value is there in being loved by those who have no choice? What purpose would there be in any preaching? I am reminded of a kid who asked me in college: "Can God make a rock so big, even he can't lift it?" I'm sure most of you have heard this, but I was taken aback at the time. As I thought about his question, I answered with this. God already has made a rock so big, he can't lift it. What your really asking is, can God impose limits on himself? He is bound by truth, he cannot lie. He promised to never flood the whole earth again, and there is his rock he made. My point is, God is extradinarly complex, and I just don't believe that life would even be here without the concept of free will.

[PastorSteve]

Freewill is everywhere throughout scripture. Even someone who has never done an extensive study into the scripture can see it.

But for the sake of this thread. Don't expect BL to do anything but pull scripture out of context, say you are a decieving, decived liar, theif, waste of breath and then IGNORE your question altogether.

Other than that, freewill is a very good topic to talk about.

[BLsig]

My, it seems you are getting angrier by the minute.

You say that God is Soverign, and His will be done means that His Will is always done.

Actually God says that. I just preach it.

You go on to say that man is without free will, which Was actually given to man by God at creation but we will say that your thoughts are true for the sake of discussion.

Could you please quote the Scripture that says man was given "freewill". While you are searching for it, consider this actual Scripture....So then it is notof him that willeth, or runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy

God created the Garden of EDEN, and Adam and EVE. He did not give them free will, according to you

No, The Bible teaches that man cannot will himself saved. I just preach it.

.

God is Soverign and His will is always done, according to you.

No, God, according to God is Sovereign, and declares that His Will, will be done on earth, and in Heaven. Why do you call God a liar?

But God instructed ( commanded )Adam and Eve to NOT EAT OF THE TREE. Now if we do not have free will, and His will is always done, THEN WHY DID THEY EAT OF THE TREE.

The same reason you deny His Word. You, like Adam, and Eve were under the spell of the serpent. You can only do the will of satan. It was the sin of Adam and Eve, their deception at the hands of satan that caused Jesus to come and spill His Blood for the True Believers.

YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS BL....IT IS ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT NOT BOTH. WHICH IS IT BL, DO WE HAVE FREE WILL OR IS GOD'S WILL NOT ALWAYS DONE.

Gods will is always done, and youcannot will yourself saved. You must be chosen by God. Why do you despise this so much?

STEP CAREFULLY. As Jesus said to the false teachers at the temple... Answer me this...

I am lead by the Holy Ghost. Do you not understand that the Children of God will take your hatred of His Word, and make it subject to Christ Jesus.

[BLsig]

Freewill is everywhere throughout scripture. Even someone who has never done an extensive study into the scripture can see it.

Could post just one Scripture that says man has the "freewill" to decide his salvation. I know you *say* there are many, but just one will do....

[Rebel Hog]

Nevertheless many assert that the human will makes the ultimate choice of spiritual life or spiritual death. Here the will is altogether free to choose eternal life offered in Jesus Christ or to reject it. It is said that God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.
There can be no question that receiving Jesus Christ is an act of the human will. It is often called "faith." But how do men come to willingly receive the Lord? It is usually answered, "Out of the power of their own free will." But how can that be? Jesus is a prophet. To receive him means to believe all that he says. In John 8:41-45 Jesus made it clear that you were born of Satan. This evil father hates the truth and imparted the same bias into your heart by nature. Hence said Jesus, "Because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me." How does the human will jump out of man to choose to believe what the human mind hates and denies?

[BLsig]

God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.
There can be no question that receiving Jesus Christ is an act of the human will.

Got Scripture???????????????

[MichaelT.]

QUOTES:

[blockquote]quote:

God is Soverign and His will is always done, according to you.[/blockquote]

No, God, according to God is Sovereign, and declares that His Will, will be done on earth, and in Heaven. Why do you call God a liar?Show me those words BL. Show me an exact quote where I call God a liar... AsChrist called them a den of vipers.... Show me those words BL... For I have not said them, so who is the liar.



[blockquote]quote:

But God instructed ( commanded )Adam and Eve to NOT EAT OF THE TREE. Now if we do not have free will, and His will is always done, THEN WHY DID THEY EAT OF THE TREE. [/blockquote]


The same reason you deny His Word. No BL , I am afraid that I am not the one denying His word.You, like Adam, and Eve were under the spell of the serpent. Sorry my friends, you have that a little backwards. And please remember, you are the one who has come here attacking people. Only in an attempt to elevate yourself.You can only do the will of satan. Pardon me sir but you are getting dangerously close to a butt whipping. I am a child of God, but I am human too. I sir am a Christian and nothing but, but by your own nature BL , you are acting as the spawn of satan. You are attempting to stop the spread of the word of God in the world, because it is pointless, since as you say, God Has chosen His people already. It was the sin of Adam and Eve, their deception at the hands of satan that caused Jesus to come and spill His Blood for the True Believers. Excuse me BL , but that is almost humorous. BL in case you did not know, there was no sin in this world, until after they disobeyed and the apple eaten. So if there was no sin in this world yet, then what made them disobey God. God's will is always done and He commanded them. How could they disobey, without free will?


Rebel Hog, God is inside each and every one of us, from birth, and we know when we are touched in our heart by His truth. With that, we have the strength in Him to exercise free will to accept Jesus' offer of Grace. The crucifixion wasthe purchase price for everybody. But not everybody will follow. Some people cannot die to self.....BL.

[Leep]

Bl- I fail to see what you feel you might accomplish here...Certainly you will not win any converts here...You may do better with those in the world who, for the most part have neither the inclination or the ability to think for themselves.
That sir is not the case here.
There is an abundance of intelligent, Godly people here -who hold beliefs just at strong as your own and are just as entitled to them.
You have shown them nothing that would indicate that you are any more qualified to state what is true and real than anyone else here.
You are not special nor do you have any "Special" insight to what God has in mind for all of us. There are those here with more experience, more intelligence, in my opinion, and more validity..and certainly are better qualified, from what I have seen so far, to state the intentions of our Lord and Saviour..and to explain those particular excerpts of Scripture and how relevant they are to a particular topic..
What does this statement : (So then it is notof him that willeth, or runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy) have to do with the discussion about free will..?
If you are going to continually pull out snippets of scripture in a vain attempt, and that vain cuts two ways, think upon it, to validate your arguments please do not insult our collective intelligence in such an obvious, clumsy way.
Sheesh, there are still people who will demand that you, and others like you, at least not insult us so crudely...
Put a little effort into it, man...If you truly believe what you say, at least make an effort to transcend our singly, and collective ignorance.
I don't mind being shown I am wrong, or even my inability to understand your greatness, but at least give me credit for not being a complete idiot.
I hope to become a complete idiot someday, but I keep failing the course....Well, my last grade was a C Minus..So I'm getting closer...
Thats what I get for signing up for computer classes...
Any way, heres my advice, for what its worth...Take a couple weeks off for reflection and then after that, Quit...
I hate to see a man waste his valuable time and effort in something that he obviously has little talent for...
Hey, there is a great big world out there, I'm sure that you will stumble onto something that you are good at..Don't tie yourself into just one job, explore the world, imagine the possibilities...
Perhaps..just perhaps, hmm save that for the later, to come..
Leep Out:

[Rebel Hog]

ORIGINAL: BLsig

Got Scripture???????????????

John3:36
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.