This came to mind the other day in a response I read on a different post, and wanted to ask for opinions. I probably won't get a chance to chime in much, at least for a day or two (ok, you can quit applauding), but maybe this will give at least some of you something to think about.
For the folks that attend a church that has any of these--a creed, mission statement, manual, etc.--where did authorization come from for this?
The same question for organizations, clubs, and leadership outside the congregation. Where is there authority, or even permission, given for national organizations, associations, committies, etc.?
As best I can tell, the highest earthy position for governing within the Church is the position of elder, and that only goes as far as the congregation they are a member of.
What are your thoughts?
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Since the passing of the Apostles, yes...Elders are (at least according to the Bible) the ranking leaders of the church. However, most consider the preacher, pastor, priest to be the leader.
For the folks that attend a church that has any of these--a creed, mission statement, manual, etc.--where did authorization come from for this?
Do you think that if some people want to say, "We believe in God, his Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit ... we belielve in the Bible ... we want to help people to know Jesus in their lives..." that such a statement requires authorization?
Is it some how dishonorable to God to affirm your belief in him? Is making a statment to follow the Great Commission, as it is known, an unauthorized action worthy of condemnation?
Not exactly what I meant Eto, but I don't see the point or purpose in even that. The name "Christian" should say all that and more. The only rule book we should ever need is the Bible.
What I had in mind, and have seen, is actual booklets containing more or less a set of by-laws--and/or big posters or scrolls or whatever hanging on the wall with mission statements and such. Probably harmless, but not authorized by the Bible.
And there are national organizations as well, that seem to have at least some authority over every congregation that carries the name. The SBA for instance--when clinton was in his scandal, it was brought before the SBA whether or not to kick him out of that church. Obviously politics infiltrates these organizations as much as any, as they refused to "rule" on it and put it back on his home congregation. That really suprised me, as AR disbarred him as a lawyer--figured they would play politics a lot sooner than a religious organization.
Just curious to what others thought about it. I figured it would be a big topic--evidently I was wrong.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Well, for instance, if a group of folk with a common understanding in matters of the Godhead, tongues, baptism formula, want to have a common meeting place (church), a statement of some kind should be available for folk that are new to the congregation. If we are to be in accord then it is helpful to know the common beliefs that the church is holding fast to that other churches may disagree with.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Just curious to what others thought about it. I figured it would be a big topic--evidently I was wrong.
Chad
I'll reply Chad. I spent a year plus a few months at an Episcopal church where the Nicene Creed is read with the Apostle's Creed weekly. Not bad..BUT EVERY WEEKThat got old real fast. The litergy over the elements was the same and it honestly was too structured for me. Same pages from the Book of Common Prayer...that just isn't me. I did like the quiet worship type envirinment...and I could have put up with the creeds .but when I played softball and saw the men lighting up in the dugout and the stories of fornication frequently with drunkeness , the ordination of gays in the northern churches....I quickly and quietly left.
I really don't see nothing wrong with the statements of faith...but I must admit some creeds seem to need a lawyer to interpret them. I hate saying something I don't fully understand.
Maybe I'm just too simple for today's world. Ask me what I believe, I'll tell you "The Bible.". Ask me what the mission is of the Church, I'll say "To follow and obey what we are taught in the Bible." Ask me my stance on a particular subject, I'll say "This is what the Bible says about it, so that's what I believe."
I'm a simple kind of man.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
I think it is most helpful to be able to look at a church statement of faith and know if the doctrine is scriptural. Though I have seen churches that never seemed to practice or preach according to their doctrinal statements. I think bylaws are a good way of preserving a church. Bylaws can protect a small church from having a bunch of outsiders come join just to take over with different beliefs.
Not exactly what I meant Eto, but I don't see the point or purpose in even that. The name "Christian" should say all that and more. The only rule book we should ever need is the Bible.
What I had in mind, and have seen, is actual booklets containing more or less a set of by-laws--and/or big posters or scrolls or whatever hanging on the wall with mission statements and such. Probably harmless, but not authorized by the Bible.
And there are national organizations as well, that seem to have at least some authority over every congregation that carries the name. The SBA for instance--when clinton was in his scandal, it was brought before the SBA whether or not to kick him out of that church. Obviously politics infiltrates these organizations as much as any, as they refused to "rule" on it and put it back on his home congregation. That really suprised me, as AR disbarred him as a lawyer--figured they would play politics a lot sooner than a religious organization.
Just curious to what others thought about it. I figured it would be a big topic--evidently I was wrong.
Chad
No it isn't a big topic, because it is splitting hairs. To declare a position doesn't need 'authorization' nor does it displace the obvious, which would be an adherence to the scripture first. It is a simple matter of having a defined position so that those of like minds or who don't have the same convictions can know ,up front,where someone is coming from. The title of your denomination needs to be removed , according to your logic,and just call yourselves Christians.Whenyou mention COC,many distinctive doctrinal stances come to anyone's mind with any familiarity of the denomination, just as it would if you said Presbyterian, Baptist, or any other group.The fact that you have no creed and say so,IS your doctrinal statement by implication. You have very definite doctrinal positions as evidenced by your posts, and just because they aren't recorded doesn't change that fact.
I think it is most helpful to be able to look at a church statement of faith and know if the doctrine is scriptural. Though I have seen churches that never seemed to practice or preach according to their doctrinal statements. I think bylaws are a good way of preserving a church. Bylaws can protect a small church from having a bunch of outsiders come join just to take over with different beliefs.
On a more seriouis note, the scripture tells us in the parable of the tares that the evil one plants seed in the church, infiltrators as some call them. Their express purpose is to create strife and division, sometimes over doctrine, and sometimes over the color of the carpet. Having defined bylaws and a doctrinal statement, can help minimize this,although scripture also tells us that we aren't always able to discern them, and that the angels appointed by God will ultimately do the separating.How it can help minimize is by having clarification and by an examination of the understanding of the basic scriptural requirements and the personal life of an individual that will be in any level of leadership epecially( such as the ordination process), and even to an extent inthe membership process.The church I attended before coming to Atalnta had a 4 class set up for new members, which gave them an exposure to the churches involvements, its doctrinal positions(which I taught), and even gave a class that woud give the person an oppurtunity to make sure that they grasped salvation and had been born again before they were considered members of the church. Any and all were welcomed, but the members were required to complete the classes.These measurescan help expose such infiltrators before they get rooted in and can cause damage,and may save someone from having incorrect assumptions such as equating membership with salvation, etc..A little more specificity is needed than I just believe the Bible---who knows what they really mean, as evidenced by the wide berth of interpretations and meanings. Someone who is LDS or Jehovah's witness would make the same claim to believing the Bible and or that they believe Jesus is the Son of God--but what do they mean when they say that? That is where the distinctions are needed--for their sake as well as the church.
Creeds, Mission Statements, Manuals, etc.
