I was wondering what all of you thought of Christain Rock Music and its reverence..
I am a Roman Catholic, and realize I am at the minority here, but I just want to know others opinions...
For me, Christain Rock uses Christ's name in a very irreverant way with clashing drums and electric guitars.
In the Tridentine Mass (Pre Vatican II Latin Mass), the Mass I attend every week.... whenever the name of Christ is uttered, the Priest bows as does the Congregation. I believe the name of Christ is overused in today's society and used in irreverent ways...
What do you guys think??????
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St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle...
"The Rosary is the scourge of the devil"
-Pope Adrian
Would you rather these bands use the name of Christ in a good way, or blaspheme his name and God's like some bands do? Look up the lyrics to some of the songs by a band called Deicide, and see what I mean. I personally find some Christian oriented music to be very inspirational.
I'm with Stcroix on this...there are different degrees though of rock. I'm a musician and Christian rock can cover a big spand. If you look at the big spand I must say some is appropriate and some is quite fleshly.
But in the church itself..ZERO..I'm for reverence entirely. For entertainment ..ok and some IMHO not ok..paints a very carnal Christian and does more harm than good.
I also went to an Episcopal church for a year.IMHO you are correct. These types of churches are MUCH more reverent IN CHURCH but I believe God wants us to be reverent outside the church too. In this particuliar church they were not very reverent outside of the church.
Would you rather these bands use the name of Christ in a good way, or blaspheme his name and God's like some bands do? Look up the lyrics to some of the songs by a band called Deicide, and see what I mean. I personally find some Christian oriented music to be very inspirational.
I was thinking I would rather not have them use His name at all....Im kind of a radical though, so I don't exactly expect many to agree
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St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle...
"The Rosary is the scourge of the devil"
-Pope Adrian
Well, as a whole, Christs name is used WAY too flippantly in todays society as a whole in any and every context. Not just Music. And within music, His name is used way to flippantly in all types and styles of music as well.
The problem with music is and will always be style. Therefore it is entirely subjective.
Music in and of itself (I'm talking the notes and sounds not lyrics) are just that...music...notes...sounds...there is nothing there that makes it either Godly or evil. An Em (E minor) for example is a minor chord that some attach to more sad/meloncholy/evil whatever music because of it's very sound and yet songs like Our God is an Awesome God use that chord in a magnificent way.
Therefore the chords or melodies or whatever are not good or evil in and of themselves.
I don't care for Rap music and even have a hard time calling it music but it's just because I don't like that style.
So what is left is the lyrics. In my opinion there are only a few different types of lyrics. God/Christ/Holy Spirit honoring, NON God/Christ/Holy Spirit honoring and then there are neutral lyrics. Neutral lyrics in my opinion are those that talk about a loved one, favorite dog, fun times. They neither honor God nor dishonor Him.
So we now have what is honoring and non honoring.
Since we now know that the music isn't the enemy and it is only the lyrics that can honor/dishonor God then you have to look at the lyrics in and of themself.
And example would be Amazing Grace. I don't think there is anyone that would argue that Amazing Grace is a wonderful song that is very God honoring. Yet I have heard it sung to the melodies of 'house of the rising sun', and other types of melodies. So do these melodies make the song any lessreverant?? If they do...then please answer why??
I guess where I'm going with this is simply that if Amazing grace sung to a melody that Metallica made popular ushers this person into the presense of God, who am I to say that what they are listening to is irreverant?? I'm not saying that it does anything for me just that God made us all different and what moves you may not move me.
I suppose where I'm going with this is simply that saying "Christian rock is this or Southern Gosple is that or Christ Rap is this" is just too broad a brush to paint them with. Do the lyrics honor God? And if you can read the lyrics and see that they honor God, then it is up to us to get passed the stylistic differences we have and see how ALL music styles that honor God can be used for His Glory and to maybe reach some folks that aren't going to be reached otherwise.
As with any music or deed dealing with Christ, its all whats in your heart. Its really that simple in my opinion. If you are sincerely giving glory to God, it doesn't matter. If you are giving glory to yourself, because you like the beat and the dancing or whatever, its bad. Everyday, we give glory to ourself in one form or another. Ever since "the Law" has been given to man, man has wanted to make black and write rules about life. They are never totally secure with thier relationship with God. They like rules to make them feel safe in God's eyes. Only rule is loving God with all our heart soul and mind.
Just to make it interesting or spicy or whatever .I disagree. I will say your reply is simply an opinion as well as mine. While working on a mission's church roof once I was working along side a missionary. We were listening to a Christian radio station. The song was the same beat as Eric Clapton's Cocaine but with Christain lyrics. My friend immediately called the station and to my knowledge that song wan't played again.
Like I said , I am a musician and also came out of the late 60s[8D]In my Christian walk.. music has been a trial. I have fallen lot's of times from simply listening to "Harmless music" For some , true...an E minor triad is simply 3 notes that can be played in the song of What Child is This or with electronics made to stimulate your flesh. It's a Romans 14 subjective issue. However : as Romans 14 commands ,if anything offends my brother I won't do it. When I hear rock it stimulates my flesh and rebellious spirit. It reminds me of the long haired days of my youth where "If it feels good do it."
Right now I'm seeking God harder than ever. I'm very sensitive to God and through fasting my senses are much more acute. I can tell you rock does not bring the peace that we are supposed to be seeking..rather ..it stimulates the flesh that we are supposedto be killing. This has been discussed numerous times so I won't say much regarding this one. I can say if I was at your home and you had Christian rock playing I wouldn't be back. Sorry if that offends anyone. I personally see Christian rock as carnal , luke warm etc. I do not believe the E minor analogy is a good one. In Exodus they whipped up some strange fire. Is fire fire..or can there be strange fire.?
This of course is my opinion.Take it for what it's worth. And rock in church ..absolutely not.
Chuck all your post says is, its what's in your heart. Music is manmade, and any man made salvation is no salvation at all as Galations says. Nothing we can do manmade will get us in Heaven. No matter if its rock in the Church or you typical Amazing Grace.
Chuck all your post says is, its what's in your heart. Music is manmade, and any man made salvation is no salvation at all as Galations says. Nothing we can do manmade will get us in Heaven. No matter if its rock in the Church or you typical Amazing Grace. Big Country
I don't understand "The What's In Your Heart " part of your sentence. If I relayed that message I apologize .Let me give some verses that dictate what is in my heart.
1. Come out from among them and be separate
2. Be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by th e4renewing of your mind.
3. But be filled with the Spirit ..speaking to yourselves in Spiritual songs, psalms and hymns..making a joyful noise unto the Lord.
4. And whatsoever ye do...do it as unto the Lord.
5. For God is not the God of confusion.
6. For the Wisdom tha tcometh from above is peaceful and fruitful and easily entreated.
7. Do all things unto the edifying of others
8. Whatsoever is lovely, of virtue of good report think on these things.
9.If anyman be in Christ he is a new creature..old things have past away ..behold all things become new.
10..For we are not ignorant of th edevil's devices.
11. For he that is of the flesh can not and will not please God.
Those are just a few off the top of my head.
Big Country...in summary ,a man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. he alone will have to answer to God. For me I understood Christ as saying we must crucify our flesh. Rock to me makes alive my flesh.
The Christian community cried against this "tool of Satan." But in the 70's, a sinister hand began planting a small, but deadly seed. And the walls began to crumble. And like a raging hurricane, rock began desecrating the sacred music of the church. In they came; Bill Gaither, the Imperials, Dallas Holmes, Randy Stonehill, Keith Greene, and others. Today, rock music is a common companion of the church. And as you'll soon read; the rebellion, the sexual theme, the blasphemy, the occult influence, are found "lurking under the cover" of Christian rock.
Amy Grant
The queen-bee of Christian rock is Amy Grant. Amy's song, "Baby, Baby", was unprecedented in Gospel Music history topping the chart as the number-one spot on Billboard magazine. Is the secular world "turning on" to Jesus? Not hardly. . . People magazine (July 15, 1991 p.71) says of Amy's video Baby, Baby , "There's saintly Amy cuddling some hunky guy, crooning "Baby, Baby" into his ear and looking pretty SLEEK AND SINFUL. . ." After all, Amy confesses, "I'm trying to look SEXY to sell a record . . ." (Rolling Stone, June 6, 1985 p. 10)
The Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:22, "Flee also youthful lusts:", but Amy says, "Petting happens . . . As a teenager, when I gave part of me to someone, I knew I was just going to flirt, HAVE A LITTLE FUN, . . ."(Bob Millard, Amy Grant, (New York, 1986),p. 30)
Amy says in Ladies Home Journal (December, 1985, p. 100), "I have a healthy sense of right and wrong, but sometimes, for example, using foul, exclamation-point words among friends can be good for a laugh."
Amy says, "Why isolate yourself? Your life isolates you enough. I'm isolated when I walk into a room and somebody says, She's a Christian and NOBODY OFFERS ME A JOINT and all the coke (cocaine) disappears. . ." (Bob Millard, Amy Grant, (New York, 1986), p. 169) Husband Gary Chapman confessed in People magazine (July 15, 1991 p. 72), of a six-year cocaine and marijuana addiction! Amy also says, "I remember years ago "” the first time I smelled anybody smoking a joint at a concert, I WAS THRILLED . . . it meant to me that obviously this person is not affected by the church peer pressure."(Bob Millard, Amy Grant, (New York, 1986),p. 30)
On Amy's video, That's What Love Is For, Amy is dressed in a red robe, (used in witchcraft rituals) flashing on the palms of her hands, a six-pointed-star "” A HEXAGRAM! Sean Sellars, a fomer satanist on death row, for sacrificing 3 people to Satan, says in his book Web of Darkness (p.51), the hexagram "is said by some to be the most powerful and evil sign in satanism and of all the occult world. The hexagram is used mainly in witchcraft to summon demons from the underworld. The word hex which means to place a curse on someone, originated from this sign." And the primary point of contact in the transmission of spirits "” is the hand!
One of the most widespread and best known satanic signs is the I1 Cornuto, also known as the "satanic salute" and the "horned hand". It is made by, making a fist and extending the first (index) and last (pinkie) finger. For example . The satanic salute is displayed by satanists to acknowledge their allegiance to Satan. Anton LaVey, displays it on the back cover of The Satanic Bible. The satanic salute is popular in rock music. And on the Michael W. Smith, In Concert (Reunion Records, 1985) video tape Amy Grant clearly flashes the "satanic salute"! And it is NOT the sign language for "I love you", where the thumb is openly extended! Amy delibertely flashes the "satanic salute" at least two separate times on the video, displaying it for several seconds!
Is Amy Grant a satanist? Absolutely NOT!
But there is a definite spirit invoked in rock music, secular or Christian "” and it's NOT the Holy Spirit! And many times, people involved in rock music get "caught up in this unholy spirit"!
During a 1993 Ophrah Winfrey interview, Michael Jackson, explained the reason for some of his fithly sexual gestures during his concerts:
[blockquote]"It happens subliminally. IT'S THE MUSIC THAT COMPELS ME TO DO IT. You don't think about it, it just happens. I'M SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM."
(The Evening Star, Feb. 11, 1993, p. A10)[/blockquote] It's NOT the lyrics! It's the MUSIC!
Reverence
