Ok, I am a southern baptist that is involved in my church for the past 16 years since I have been saved. Our church is now a contemprary/traditional churchof worship and bible study. One think I love about the direction our church is going and especially our men's minsitry is we are now not afraid to put traditions up against what the scriptures actually say. Our church has had only 3 pastors over about 70 years. The 1st was there about 30 years, the second about 25 years and now the 3rd about 5 years. Our current pastor really challenges us to test alltraditions and beliefs up against scripture and I really like that.
Ok, one thing our church believes is Once Saved Always Saved. Our pastor is planning on teaching about that this coming summer, but honestly I am not sure where I stand. I would like some advice with scriptures on this topic and why you believe what you do. I have been a christian for about 16 years, but sad to say I really haven't discipled myself like I should have for the 1st 14 years. So anyway, thanks for you imput and I look foward to reading all the scriptures and thoughts about this.
One think I have really found to enjoy about this religious forum is it is making me really think about what I believe and what the bible says and making sure I like up with the scriptures, not the scriptures line up with me.
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In Christ alone I place my trust.
Christians aren't perfect, just sinners saved by grace.
Love to fish, hunt, ride atv's, music at church, football, family and friends.
You will certainly get a wide view of opinions here. There are a lot of factors in that question my friend. Let's look at the factors.
1. Jesus says we are to have faith and believe unto the saving of the soul.
The greek word for belieth is more than a mental acknowledgement of who Jesus is .The Word actually means to ABIDE, ENDURETH//CONTINUE IN ..
JESUS said in john 8 IF YOU CONTINUE IN MT WORD , THEN ARE YE MY DISCIPLES.
My friend there are many other scriptures that warn of a turning away such as
A. I buffet myself lest I be a cast away
B He that endureth to the end shall be saved.
C. Many will say Lord I knew you ..and He will say "I didn't know you."
D. Remember King Saul
E. Remember Ananias and Saphira..
F, remember Dametrius
G. And Judus,
H. And Hymaneus whose faith hath gone shipwrecked.
now here are the positive ones.
A. Ye are my sheep and no man can pluck you from my hand.
B. Even when ye were dead in trustpasses and sins Christ died for you and hath seated you in Heavenly Places.
Peter says to make your salvaton sure. 1 John says he is coming back for those who are looking for Him and love Him. I say ...get as close to God as you can. For me..I think there are far more warnings of falling away than eternaly secure. You know in your heart when you are right with God. When you get that...keep that.
Guard it with all ya got.The road is narrow and few there be that find it.
Well I am a Christian that does believe that a Christian CAN fall from grace. I do not accept the "Tulip Theory" (Calvinism)from which the doctrine of once saved always saved is taught.
I'm going to post a few Scriptures that talk about a Christian falling away. As you will notice, these passages clearly demonstrate that the inspired writers were referring to Christians (children of God). This destroys the very convenient dodge: "If they are lost, they weren"t saved to begin with" and/or "If one is a child of God, he could never cease to become a child of God." Among other things, a child of God can become an "accursed child." Please carefully examine all the passages given. As shown in those verses, the inspired writers are referring to children of God.
1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
Thanks for the replys Goose11 and Chuck7. I am leaning to see there are more warnings about falling away. One thing I was always taught in the baptist church is that "no one can pluck you away from Christ" and "nothing can come between us and the love of Christ." But I have questions those about Christ love and salvation. Think about this, if Christ loves all, which He does, then the people in hell is loves and still loves. But, they are in hell because they made a choice not to accept him or did make that choice and decided to fall away. UGH!!!!
I know I am secure in Christ, but I want to know the truth here. You both make a great point in that I must always everyday focus on Chirst and my relationship with Him just as much as I value breathing so as to help prevent becoming idle and then falling away.
I knew a person who was a devote christian for many years and I would have bet my paycheck that he was a christian all the way. One day I ran across him and he is now a musilum. I asked him why and he said he felt it was the way. So, based on that, I can't see him being saved and going to heaven after leaving the faith for a false religion.
Anyway, I will check out these scriptures and the web site you supplied and look foward to more replys. Again, thanks a bunch.
Sorry, but I wanted to add these scriptures in.
Hebrews 10: 26-27
26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
and
Hebrews 6: 4-6
4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.
Hebrews 10:26-27 makes me wonder about those who are christians and fighting addictions. They willing sin because they have lost control, but they continue to fight and pray and ask God for help.
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In Christ alone I place my trust.
Christians aren't perfect, just sinners saved by grace.
Love to fish, hunt, ride atv's, music at church, football, family and friends.
Wow, great web site goose11. It is really opening my eyes to this topic. I have not completed all of it but am adding it to my favoites. It looks pretty straight foward.
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In Christ alone I place my trust.
Christians aren't perfect, just sinners saved by grace.
Love to fish, hunt, ride atv's, music at church, football, family and friends.
Pretty Good goose, The way I figure is, if you couldn't fall away, then why would God devote so much time in warning us about not falling away ?
So I fallow the word that says, "Be faithfull until death, and I will give you the Crown of Life eternal"
Another translation says "be faithfull even until death"And I will give you eternal Life.
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"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
One think I have really found to enjoy about this religious forum is it is making me really think about what I believe and what the bible says and making sure I like up with the scriptures, not the scriptures line up with me.
If everyone had that attitude, the world would be a better place, because there would be a lot more true Christians!
Like Alex said, if there was no danger of falling away, why the warnings? Satan and his angels fellaway--not because they were rejected byGod, or because someone came between them and God, butas I understand it because they chose to reject God.
The same applies to us--we are given the assurance that nobody can pluck us from His hand. I think this is because some preachers/teachers get so hung up on themselves, or the congregation does, that the preacher coulddemand the congregation pay up or do other things for the preacher else he would makesure they werecondemned--or at least convince the people he could do that. The Bible assures us that cannot happen. However, it does not say you cannot fall from grace--to the contrary, it says just the opposite.
Keep up the studying--you are definately an inspiration here!
Chad
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"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
One think I have really found to enjoy about this religious forum is it is making me really think about what I believe and what the bible says and making sure I like up with the scriptures, not the scriptures line up with me.
If everyone had that attitude, the world would be a better place, because there would be a lot more true Christians!
Like Alex said, if there was no danger of falling away, why the warnings? Satan and his angels fellaway--not because they were rejected byGod, or because someone came between them and God, butas I understand it because they chose to reject God.
The same applies to us--we are given the assurance that nobody can pluck us from His hand. I think this is because some preachers/teachers get so hung up on themselves, or the congregation does, that the preacher coulddemand the congregation pay up or do other things for the preacher else he would makesure they werecondemned--or at least convince the people he could do that. The Bible assures us that cannot happen. However, it does not say you cannot fall from grace--to the contrary, it says just the opposite.
Keep up the studying--you are definately an inspiration here!
Chad
Good points. After reading the scriptures of the supplied above web link, it is now obvious that we can fall away. This is all the more reason I want to just cling to my Lord and Savior everyday.
__________________
In Christ alone I place my trust.
Christians aren't perfect, just sinners saved by grace.
Love to fish, hunt, ride atv's, music at church, football, family and friends.
I knew a person who was a devote christian for many years and I would have bet my paycheck that he was a christian all the way. One day I ran across him and he is now a musilum. I asked him why and he said he felt it was the way. So, based on that, I can't see him being saved and going to heaven after leaving the faith for a false religion.
that's too bad brother,
I also want to say thanks you for the encouragement..
I also know a fellow like that. He was a piano player and had also went to Bible college with me. Dwayne ... Later on in life Dwayne had a change in philosophy,,He loved porn and was deeply involved. He flat out told me more than once "I have denounced God in my life and no longer believe in him period." I talked to him about 1 hour to see if he wasn't just angry...I believe he was sincere. He was back into drugs and I believe he has aids.
I'd never seen anyone so messed up in my life.
I knew another boy, Dustin .....I saw him grow up in the Assembly of God church. His folks were wonderful Christians.When I was a jail chaplain I visited him. Dustin got addicted to crank. He got fired uip one night and went into his dad's home saying,"Where is your God now?" He pulled the trigger and killed his dad , cripppled his mom. As he left the home a newly wed couple were standing outside of their home. He looked at them and killed them both. I went to the jail to see Dustin. OH MY !!!He wasn't the same.He had been in jail 1 1/2 years still waiting for his prisin sentence...There was plexiglass between us. He was shaking like a leave. His teeth chattering ..his eyes piercing..It took him about 20 secoonds to say Thhhhannnks Foor cccoooomming CChhhuck .
SO DARN SAD!!!!!!!I knew this kid. he was a Christian , He was now possessed I do beleive.
Once Saved Always saved or not?
The road is narrow and few there be that find it.
