Jesus warned his disciples about a coming time of tribulation such as the world has never known that he said would take place right before he came back (Matt. 24:3-31). For centuries, Christians have expected to face this difficult time before the return of their Lord. However, in the past few hundred years, some began to teach a way of escape - a crown without a cross. Originally, it started with a small group in Britain, but today it has spread so far that to some people it is almost gospel. Could this new idea be true, that the church had not known of for hundreds of years? Did not our Lord warn us of this time of tribulation so that we would indeed be prepared for it?
Many do not see this as an important issue. I think that the primary reason is because we don't know what real persecution is like. Or they simply believe the escapism because that is all they were ever taught or because it sounds so much better! Of course. Who wants to suffer? But if we are going to face this most difficult time, shouldn't we be prepared for it? More often than not, God's people went through the hard times, not around them. Why should we be any different? Jesus said that at this time many would fall away and would even turn on one another and betray one another (Matt. 24:10). He also said that the love of many would grow cold (Matt. 24:12). This can hardly be considered an unimportant issue. A Plain, Literal Approach
First of all, I would like to state that I am taking a plain, literal approach to interpretation, which is more literal at times than many pre-tribulationists. I want to look primarily at what the Bible actually has to say about this topic. However, I will use accepted terminology such as the non-biblical words "rapture" and "Millennium," only because these are the words most people relate to. I will usually follow the common usage of the word "Tribulation" to refer to the entire seven-year period even though I believe biblically it is only used of the latter three and one half years. Pentecost"™s Things to Come Eschatology
I realize that not all pre-tribulationists agree on all points. Some of the issues I cover may not apply to some. Although I have heard and read a variety of pre-tribulationists, I was formally taught from Dwight Pentecost"™s Things to Come, which has been a standard pre-tribulationist textbook for a long time. I will attempt to point out where modern pre-tribulationists have changed their views, but I do apologize if I overlook some. Pre-Tribulationism Is Based on Inferences and Is Not Specifically Taught in Scripture
The doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture is not specifically taught in the Bible. Instead, it is based upon other doctrines which pre-tribulationists conclude require a pre-tribulation rapture: such as, imminency, exemption from wrath, distinction between the church and Israel, etc. However, nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus will come prior to the Tribulation. On the other hand, Jesus himself said that he would return "after the tribulation" (Matt. 24:29-31). Burden of Proof
Finally, if pre-tribulationism is not specifically taught in Scripture, and we all agree to the post-tribulational second coming, then post- is the default position. It is up to the pre-tribulationist to demonstrate that there are two separate events and that the first of these takes place before the Tribulation. Unless it can be demonstrated otherwise, we are left to assume that the "blessed hope" of the believer is the second coming of Christ after the Tribulation.
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__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
If we are going to try to decide when the rapture takes place then we must first go to the rapture passages and see what the Bible actually has to say about this. Naturally, if we want to know when this event will take place we should look where it is discussed. The problem is that there is only one "rapture passage" in the Bible: 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Only Paul mentions the church being caught up in the air, and he only says it in this one passage. Therefore, this must be foundational to any discussion of the rapture. Since this is the only place in Scripture where the rapture is mentioned, all other passages that are taken to be "rapture passages" must have some connection to this verse. In other words, how would someone claim another passage as a "rapture passage," without first proving that the same event is being described as is in the one rapture passage in the Bible? This is very significant to the discussion, because the next closest passage to this one is Matthew 24:27-31, which specifically states that it takes place "after the tribulation."
Another passage that is commonly referred to as a "rapture passage" is 1 Corinthians 15:52. Although I would agree that this is describing the same event, the rapture is not specifically mentioned here. The reason we connect the two is because similar events are mentioned. Both passages mention a trumpet and the resurrection of believers. Because of this, we conclude that these are both the same event. However, as I already mentioned, Matthew 24:27-31 has much more in common with the one clear rapture passage. Notice the similarities:
Matt. 24:27-31
1. Called he parousia, "the coming" (27) 2. Jesus appears in heaven (30)
3. Coming on the clouds (30)
4. Angels present (31)
5. Great sound of a trumpet (31)
6. ---
7. Gathering of the elect (31)
1 Thess. 4:15-17 1. Called he parousia, "the coming" (15)
2. The Lord descends from heaven (16)
3. . . . with them in the clouds (17)
4. Archangel present (16)
5. Shout and trumpet of God (16)
6. Dead in Christ will rise (16)
7. We are caught up to meet him (17)
1 Cor. 15:52
1. Called he parousia, "the coming" (23)
2. ---
3. ---
4. ---
5. At the last trumpet (52)
6. Dead will be raised (52)
7. ---
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Rev. ch. 20:4
Then I saw (H)thrones, and (I)they sat on them, and (J)judgment was given to them And I saw (K)the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their (L)testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not (M)worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the (N)mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they (O)came to life and (P)reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. (Q)This is the first resurrection.
In the above verses from rev. 20 we can see this is about saints that have come out of the tribulation. They are part of the first resurrection. Because this is called the first resurrection, it is impossible for another to precede it. This puts an end to any possibility of a pretrib rapture. I would like to think this is just wishfull thinking on somes part. I do feel however many use a pretrib rapture as bait to try and scare people into getting saved.
1Thes. ch4 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the deadin Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
As 1 thes. shows, the living will be caught up in the 2nd resurrection. After the one in rev. which is obviously happening after or at the end of the trib period. Personally I think folks have the 2nd coming of Christ confused with a pretrib rapture which is certainly not shown in these verses. i would love it if they were right but the evidence shows differently.
Wow!!! I had questioned weither or not to start a thread on this a few weeks back! Leaf and Dabow, I agree with you guys on this topic. It's funny how this seems to be one topic that most people my age (college) have never really considered....they've "just always been told". I think the pretrib thinking may very well be the result of our messed-up evangelism, with a healthy dose of wishful thinking. I'm also amazed at the number of "christians" who just don't want to ever think about something bad happening to them.
To simplify things even farther... the "marriage" isn't until chapter 19 of revelations. All of that "tribulation" stuff happens when? Before or after?
And again: If there is any question on the matter at all, which is the safest presumption? To think you won't suffer and then go through the tribulations, (What effect do think that would have on the faith of a church who thought they were going to be spared?) or to think you will and then "oops" guess not? To be correct is best, no doubt...but if unsure there's that little saying "better safe than sorry".
Anyways, glad to see there are groups/people out there besides the small little circle I know that feel this way.
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Anything I say is my opinion, just that...and only that.
"...and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God?
I don't care what most eveangelical theologians think they know, I for one listen to what the ONE who will be doing the rapturing said.
Matthew 24;
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
It is avious he said after the great tribulation, then he would return and send his angels to gather his elect, why do people ensist on a pre-trib or mid-trip is beyond me.
Do we believe what Jesus said or not ?
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"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
It may come a surprise to some that the word "rapture" is not in the Bible. When we realize that Scripture does not speak of the rapture but rather says that at the coming of the Lord we will be raptured (caught up), it sheds new light on the discussion. It is misleading to speak of the rapture and then to ask when the rapture will take place. The Bible only mentions the coming of the Lord and says that when he comes we will be caught up together to meet him. But pre-tribulationists start by talking about the rapture and the second coming as if they were two separate events and then claim that post-tribulationists confuse the two. The fact is, however, that the Bible does not make this distinction. Instead, it uses the word "coming" (parousia) when we would expect to see the word "rapture" if indeed this were a different event.
It is also interesting to note that the New Testament does use at least two other words to describe the return of our Lord, and once again no distinction is made. They are: apokalupsis, "revelation" and epiphaneia, "appearing." Both of these Greek words are used as the hope of the church (1 Cor. 1:7; 2 Tim. 4:1,8; Titus 2:13; 1 Peter 1:7,13; 4:13) and in clear second coming passages (2 Thess. 1:7; 2:8). It would seem very strange then for the writers of the New Testament to use at least three different words interchangeably to describe two different events that are separated by seven years. In other words, it would be confusing to use these three words to speak of two different events without distinguishing the two events. We would expect them to use different words for different events (such as rapture and second coming maybe?). How are we able to distinguish what Scripture does not?
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Pre-Tribulation?
