THE GODHEAD: Part 1 By L. T. SMITH
[hr] [/align] Romans 1:20
* This explains the purpose for having a Godhead study.
* The Godhead is without excuse and we must understand this in order to receive the full revelation of who God is. THREE BASIC THEORIES OF THE GODHEAD
John 17:17
* Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. We must let the Bible be the basis for all establishment of truth. WHO, WHAT, WHERE IS GOD? SPIRIT
John 4:23-24
* God is a Spirit. When you see the term God, it is referring to a Spirit.
Acts 7:48-49
* God is not a little figure or a person off in heaven somewhere. God is a Spirit that fills heaven and earth, because heaven is His throne and earth is His footstool. OMNIPRESENT (EVERYWHERE)
Psalms 189:7-10
* God is a Spirit that is everywhere. You can not hide from God.
* Where ever two or three are gathered together in His name there He is. Why? "He is everywhere."
I Kings 8:27
* The Heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee. Why? He is everywhere.
* A place or body can contain the fulness (or quality) of God, but can not contain all of the quantity of God.
Deuteronomy 4:35 & 39
* Lord is God-there is none else beside Him.
* The term Lord used in all capitals always refers to God or deity (the omnipresent Spirit).
* Verse 39: Only one God that is in heaven above and the earth beneath.
* One God or Spirit that is everywhere.
Proverbs 15:3
* Eyes of the Lord are everywhere (omnipresent). You can not make God out to be a human or He would be all eyes according to this scripture; but it is simply saying that He is an omnipresent Spirit.
Jeremiah 23:24
* Can not hide from the Lord. Fills heaven and earth.
* If there is only one, where are the other three (refer to chart)? We are establishing the fact not the theory that there is only one God (not two or three) and He is a Spirit. INVISIBLE
St. John 1:18
* No man has seen God at any time. Some say Moses saw the hinder part of God. He saw the manifestation of God, but not the Spirit itself. God can manifest himself as anything, and you can see the manifestation (burning bush, dove, etc.) but you can not see the Spirit itself, because it is invisible and no man has ever seen it.
John 5:37
* They had not seen his shape nor heard his voice. What they did see was the manifestation of God.
Colossians 1:15
* Jesus is the image of the invisible God. He is all of God we will see and we will cover how this is later in the study. IMMORTAL (EVERLASTING, CAN NOT DIE)
1 Timothy 1:17
* Immortal, eternal, invisible, only wise God. Immortal means God (the Spirit) can never die. This is important to know so you can later understand about the crucifixion of Christ.
I Timothy 6:14-16
* Jesus will show who is the only King of Kings and Lord of lords and He who only hath immortality.
* He is also invisible. Since He is an invisible, omnipresent Spirit that fills the atoms of the universe just like a thick fog, so if the Spirit would become visible (even after we get to heaven) we would all be blind. He will never cease to be an omnipresent Spirit, so the only way we will ever see God is in the face of Jesus Christ (who is the visible image of the invisible God).
Psalms 90:1-4
* We dwell in the presence of God, and he is from everlasting to everlasting.
* Flesh is not eternal, but God is eternal.
Luke 24:39
* Spirit does not have flesh and bones. God is not an old man up in heaven. He is an immortal, everlasting Spirit. Flesh gets old, a spirit does not.
Ephesians 4:4-6
* One God and one Spirit (refer to chart). There is one God who is through all and in you all. That is why the Spirit in you is called the Holy Ghost or Christ in you. There are three offices of God, but not three Gods:
(1) Father-Spirit as creator and ruler.
(2) Son-flesh which spirit dwelt in, making him God.
(3) Holy Ghost-Spirit of God as it deals with man. I am a father, son and husband, but I am not three persons and I only have one name.
Mark 12:29-37
* First commandment: the Lord our God is One Lord. Spirit prophesying through David. God and man dwelling in Christ. If the scripture says there is one, who has the right to say there are three.
* Jesus went on to quote Psalms 110:1 to the Jews and asked them how was the messiah going to be David's son and David's Lord. The (flesh) that was born of Mary was of the lineage of David according to the promises God had made to Abraham, as recorded in the first chapter of Luke and Matthew- (Lineage is recorded all the way to Mary and Joseph with David and his sons included.) The God that David prayed to was the same God that dwelt inside that human body, making Jesus both David's Lord and his son. Look at the words Lord - the first is all capitals and the second is not. It lets us know that this is the Spirit speaking about the flesh.
* Right hand of God will be covered later but it refers to the power of God. Spirit set up flesh and gave him all power.
* The Son did not exist from the beginning, except in the plan of God, but Jesus was from the beginning. How? The term son refers to the flesh of God but the Name Jesus includes both flesh and Spirit, and the Spirit of God that was in Jesus did exist in the beginning. We must realize this to understand how the terms are applied in scripture.
I Timothy 3:16
* God (deity) was manifest in the flesh.
* God was seen of angels. When did the angels see God? When the flesh was born in Bethlehem. When will we see God? When we get to heaven and see the glorified body of Jesus.
* Flesh could not do anything without the Spirit that dwelt in it because Jesus said the Words he spoke was not him, but the father dwelling in him was doing the work.
II Corinthians 5:19
* God in Christ. Reconciling the world back to himself. Why? There was no other God to reconcile him to. That is why He said He would swear by Himself, because there was no other God up there to swear by. There is only one God (Spirit).
John 3:34-35
* Spirit in Christ given without measure. If He was co-equal God He would not have to be given anything, but He was a man who had to have the Spirit of God in Him to be able to do the works of God.
Matthew 1:18-25
* Verses 18-20: Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost making Jesus the son of the Holy Ghost. So unless the Holy Ghost and the Father are the same Spirit instead of Co-equal persons then Jesus would be the son of the Holy Ghost instead of the son of the Father or else He would have two fathers. We realize from this, that they are only offices of the one Spirit of God, and the Spirit is called the Holy Ghost here because it is dealing with man.
* Verse 21: His name shall be called Jesus which means Jehovah has become our salvation. An angel named him, not Joseph, because it was prophesied in the Old Testament that the Lord would give him a new name. Keep this in mind because we will cover it later in the study.
* Verse 23: Jesus was God (Spirit) with us. He was God manifest in the flesh. COMPARING SCRIPTURES OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS
Scriptural comparisons concerning the prophecies about Jehovah of the Old Testament being fulfilled by Jesus in the New Testament (proving they are the same).
Isaiah 43:3, 10-15, 25
* Verse 3: Lord thy God is the Holy one (not 2 or 3), and the Saviour.
* Verse 10-15: There was no God formed before Him, nor after him. Yet the doctrine of the Trinity indicates that the son proceeded out from the father in eternity before the world was. According to this scripture that would not be possible.
* There is no Saviour other than this one God that is speaking in these scriptures, so when the Saviour comes to the world it will be this one God of the Old Testament.
* Called our redeemer, Holy One, Saviour, Creator, King which are terms that are applied to Jesus in the New Testament.
* Verse 25: It is the one God that will blot out or remove our sins. Isaiah 44:6, 8, 24
* Verse 6: He is the Lord, King, Redeemer, the First and the Last and beside Him there is no God.
* Verse 8: If there is another God, He does not know about it.
* Verse 24: He is the God that made all things, created the heavens and earth alone, by Himself, and there was no other God with Him.
Isaiah 45:5, 6, 15, 18
* All these scriptures simply reemphasize the fact that there is only one God that is the Saviour and Creator and there is no other God besides Him.
Isaiah 45:21-24
* He is the only God and Saviour there is and unto Him every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. Philippians 2:9-1 1
* The name of Jesus is above every name and at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah. It proves that Jesus is the one God of the Old Testament. JESUS AS THE FATHER
Isaiah 9:6-7
* The son to be born is referred to as the mighty God and the everlasting Father, which proves again that Jesus is the one God of the Old Testament that came in human flesh to redeem man from his sin by the death of the flesh on calvary. This also makes Him our Saviour and Redeemer which fulfills the other prophecies concerning the one true God of the Old Testament.
John 3:13
* Jesus was on earth talking to Nicodemus, yet He said He was in heaven also. This proves He is man and yet God that is everywhere according to the deity that lives in His flesh. Not a separate person, but the same one Spirit of an omnipresent God.
I Corinthians 8:4-6
* There is but one God, the Father (term father as pertaining to God always refer to the omnipresent Spirit) and one Lord Jesus Christ. (Use this in referring to the next scripture.)
II Corinthians 3:17
* The Lord (Jesus) is that Spirit, when compared with the previous scripture, this proves that Jesus is the same one God as the Father (Spirit).
John 10:30
* Jesus said, "I and my Father are one". How are they one? When Spirit was put in flesh they became one person. He was fully God and fully man in one person. This statement caused the Jews to try to stone Him because they could not accept Him as the one God of the Old Testament, which eventually resulted in their being cut off and God turning to the Gentiles to take out a people for His name's sake.
John 14:5-10
* Jesus told the disciples from henceforth you know the Father and have seen Him. Since the Father is an invisible Spirit that no man can see, the only way they could see Him was in the face of Jesus Christ. He proves this on His next point.
* Philip asked to see the Father and it would satisfy him. Jesus seemed surprised that He had been so long with Philip and he still had not recognized that He was the Father. He let Philip know that when you see Jesus you have seen the Father. (The body of Jesus Christ is the only visible part of the Father you can see.)
* He revealed that it was the Father (Spirit) that was in Him who was doing the works of the Spirit.
John 8:24, 27
* Jesus was speaking of the Father in all of these verses and He let them know they would die in their sins if they did not believe that He was the Father. Why? Because they would never be baptized in His name for the remission of sins as commanded by the apostles.
Colossians 1:14-20
* Verse 14: We have redemption through His blood (this lets us know these scriptures are referring to Jesus Christ).
* Verse 15: Image of the invisible God. Jesus is the only physical part of God we will ever see and He is also the perfect image of God Spiritually because He is God in flesh.
* Verses 16-20: Jesus is the creator of all things, which means He has to be the one creator that Isaiah prophesied about which also said there was no other God beside Him. * He reconciled all things to himself, because there is no other God to reconcile it to. (Flesh reconciled all things to the Spirit.)
Colossians 2:8-12
* Paul warned against philosophy, vain deceit, tradition of men and rudiments of the world.
* Verses 9-10: The fulness of the Godhead bodily is in Jesus Christ. The body of Jesus does not contain all of the quantity of God, but all of the fulness of the quality of God. The body of Jesus is God's headquarters.
* Ye are complete in Him, because He is the head of all principality and power.
* Verses 11-12: Old Testament circumcision was a cutting away of flesh made with hands, which was a type of New Testament circumcision made without hands which is the putting away of the sins of the flesh by baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ (for the remission of sins).
Matthew 28:17-20
* All power in heaven and earth was given to Jesus. If He was a co-equal God, then why would He have to be given anything; but, humanity had to receive power from deity. This is the father setting the son up on the throne as prophesied.
* Baptize in the Name (singular) of the Father (not in the Father, but the name of the Father). Jesus said I come in my Father's name. The name of the Father is Jesus.
* Name of the Son-She shall bring forth a son and thou shalt call his name Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Son.
* Name of the Holy Ghost-He promised to send the Holy Ghost in his name. The name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus.
* Since Spirit (Father, Holy Ghost) and flesh (son) are in the same person of Jesus, the name of the Father, son and Holy Ghost is Jesus. if the apostles use the name Jesus in baptism, then we will know that this is the correct meaning and fulfillment of this scripture.
Acts 2:38
* The Apostles (who had received direct revelation from Jesus) baptized in the Name of Jesus for the remission of sin.
Acts 10:48
* The first gentile saved was commanded to be baptized in the name of the Lord. He had just preached to them that they could receive remission of sins through his name.
Acts 4:10-12
* Jesus is the only name under heaven given among men that will save you. Where was the name given in the plan of salvation? Baptism for the remission of sins. That is why Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins".
I John 5:5-8
* There are three that bear record in heaven. He bears record of three offices or manifestations, but it does not say that there are three separate persons in existence, because that would contradict the other scriptures on the Godhead. These three witnesses are one. The three earth bearing witnesses (blood, water and Spirit) are said to agree in one, not are one.
I John 5:13
* You can have eternal life through believing in the name of the Son of God.
I John 5:20
* Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life.
Jeremiah 10:10
* The Lord (Jehovah) of the Old Testament is stated as being the true God. Since there is only one God, the Jesus of the New Testament must be the Jehovah of the Old Testament.
Zechariah 12:1
* The one Lord that created heaven and earth is doing the speaking in these chapters.
Zechariah 12:9-10
* They will look upon me whom they pierced? Who was it that was pierced on Calvary? Jesus. This proves again that Jesus was the One Lord of Israel.
Zechariah 13:6-9
* This speaks of a time when the God of the Old Testament will return to the Jews and they will ask Him about the wounds in His hands. Who had the nail prints in his hands? Jesus.
* He will destroy two thirds of Israel, but He will spare the third part when they recognize Him and call upon His name. (The name of the one with the nail prints.) He will then answer and say it is my people and they shall say "the Lord is my God". (Jesus is our God.)
* If He refuses to spare the Jews who have not recognized who He is, what makes us believe He will spare the gentiles who refuse to recognize Him as the one God of heaven and earth.
Zechariah 14:1-5, 9
* The Lord's feet will touch the Mount of Olives. The feet of Jesus are the only feet God has, because a Spirit does not have flesh and bone.
* Lord God will come and all of His saints with Him.
* Verse 9: He will be King over the whole earth, there will be one Lord and His name one. The whole world will recognize that Jesus is the one true and living God.
Acts 1:9-12
* Jesus left from the top of the Mount of Olives and an angel told the apostles He would return in like manner. So this also confirms that Jesus will be the God whose feet touch the mount of Olives.
I Thessalonians 3:11-13
* This states that Jesus is the one coming with His saints (fulfilling the prophesy of Zach. 14:5) proving again that Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. NAME OF THE ONE COMING BACK
Revelation 19:11-16
* He had a name written no man knew, but He Himself. He was called The Word of God. We will find out the name of the word in our next scripture reading.
* He is also THE KING OF KINGS and THE LORD OF LORDS.
John 1:14
* Word was made flesh. Everyone realizes this scripture is saying Jesus is called the Word.
Matthew 1:21
* Thou shalt call His name Jesus. (The name Jesus means Jehovah has become our salvation.)
Isaiah 62:2
* The gentiles would see His righteousness and kings would see His glory and He shall be called by a new name which the Lord shall name. That is why Joseph did not name Him but God sent an angel to name Him. The new name is Jesus (Jehovah Saviour). This is confirmed in the next scriptures.
Matthew 12:18-21
* He is showing here that Jesus is fulfilling the prophesy of Isaiah when he wrote "In His name shall the gentiles trust".
Acts 9:5 & 15
* The Lord said His name was Jesus.
* Verse 15: Paul was sent to bear His name before gentiles and kings. (The fulfillment of Isaiah 62:2.)
Revelation 2:17
* He will give a new name who no man except He that has received it.
Galatians 3:27
* We receive the name of Jesus when we are baptized in His name. That is why the ones who have received it know His name, because you will not be baptized in His name if you do not believe He is the one true God.
Revelation 14:1
* They have his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 3:12
* He will write upon him the name of God. The name of the city is revealed, but the name of God is not revealed except to say it will be His new name. Now, we realize from scripture that the new name is Jesus and remember the name in the foreheads was also the name of the Father, proving that the Father's new name is Jesus. He robed Himself in flesh and became a son which made Him Jehovah Saviour or Jesus.
* He is the Father in creation, the Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost in His dealings with man; but, His name is Jesus.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[ol]
Ok Snooky, Mac, I will play along and start out with the usual questions.
Is Jesus His own Father?
If Jesus' will and the Father's will were identical, then why did Jesus express the desire to escape the cup but resigns Himself not to His own will, but the will of the Father?
Was Jesus praying to Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
If Jesus was praying to the divine side of Himself, then isn't He still praying to Himself?
Why was Jesus not saying, "Not My will, but MY will be done?" if there is only one person and one will involved when He was praying in Luke 22:42& Matt. 26:39.
If baptism is essential for salvation, then what happens to someone who repents of sin, accepts Jesus as Savior, walks across the street to get baptized but is killed by a car. Does he go to heaven or hell?
[ol]If he goes to heaven, then baptism isn't a requirement is it?
If he goes to hell, then faith in Christ isn't sufficient to save him is it? 3. What about the person that is saved in the name of the father, son and holy ghost. Are they saved?[/ol]
Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at a later date?
If God is only one person, why did Jesus say in John 14:23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." If God is only one person, why does Jesus say, "we"?
Oneness theology teaches that God was in the mode of the Father in the Old Testament. God was seen in the OT (not as a vision or a dream or an angel in the following verses: Exo. 6:2-3; Gen. 19:24; Num. 12:6-8). But, Jesus said no one has seen the Father (John 6:46). If they were seeing God Almighty (Exo. 6:2-3) but it wasn't the Father, then who was it?
Does oneness doctrine teach that tongues is a necessary sign of salvation? Can a non oneness pentacostal be saved?[/ol]
Ok Snooky, Mac, I will play along and start out with the usual questions.
Is Jesus His own Father?
If Jesus' will and the Father's will were identical, then why did Jesus express the desire to escape the cup but resigns Himself not to His own will, but the will of the Father?
Was Jesus praying to Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
If Jesus was praying to the divine side of Himself, then isn't He still praying to Himself?
Why was Jesus not saying, "Not My will, but MY will be done?" if there is only one person and one will involved when He was praying in Luke 22:42 & Matt. 26:39.
His praying indicates a distinction between the Son of God and God. Jesus prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other "persons." This one example destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.
How can God pray and still be God? By definition, God in His omnipotence has no need to pray, and in His oneness has no other to whom He can pray. If the prayers of Jesus prove there are two persons in the Godhead, then one of those persons is subordinate to the other and therefore not fully or truly God.
What, then, is the explanation of the prayers of Christ? It can only be that the human nature of Jesus prayed to the eternal Spirit of God. The divine nature did not need help; only the human nature did. As Jesus said at the Garden of Gethsemane, "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matthew 26:41). Hebrews 5:7[/b] makes it clear that Jesus needed to pray only during "the days of his flesh." During the prayer at Gethsemane, the human will submitted itself to the divine will. Through prayer His human nature learned to submit and be obedient to the Spirit of God (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:7-8). [/b]This was not a struggle between two divine wills, but a struggle between the human and divine wills in Jesus. As a man Jesus submitted Himself to and received strength from the Spirit of God.
You may object to this explanation, contending that it means Jesus prayed to Himself. However, we must realize that, unlike any other human being, Jesus had two perfect and complete natures- humanity and divinity. What would be absurd or impossible for an ordinary man is not so strange with Jesus. We do not say Jesus prayed to Himself, for that incorrectly implies Jesus had only one nature like ordinary men. Rather, we say the human nature of Jesus prayed to the divine omnipresent Spirit of Jesus that dwelt in the man.
The choice is simple. Either Jesus as God prayed to the Father or Jesus as man prayed to the Father. If the former were true, then we have a form of subordinationism or Arianism in which one person in the Godhead is inferior to, not co-equal with, another person in the Godhead. This contradicts the biblical concept of one God, the full deity of Jesus, and the omnipotence of God. If the second alternative is correct, then no distinction of persons in the Godhead exists. The only distinction is between humanity and divinity, not between God and God
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If baptism is essential for salvation, then what happens to someone who repents of sin, accepts Jesus as Savior, walks across the street to get baptized but is killed by a car. Does he go to heaven or hell?[/b] [/b]
If he goes to heaven, then baptism isn't a requirement is it?[/b]
[/b]If he goes to hell, then faith in Christ isn't sufficient to save him is it?[/b] 3. What about the person that is saved in the name of the father, son and holy ghost. Are they saved?[/b]
I believe that baptism is an essential part of the salvation experience. As far as speculating about your other questions . . .your asking the wrong fella and I don"t have the answer to those type questions. Even the hair on our head is numbered and I don"t believe our time will be up until God allows it.
Also there is no other name in which we can be saved other than the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which is Jesus.
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Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at a later date?
Since God is an invisible Spirit and is omnipresent, He certainly does not have a body as we know it. He did assume various forms and temporary manifestations throughout the OT so that humans could see Him.. However the Bible does not record any permanent manifestation of God until Jesus Christ was born. Of course in Christ, God had a human body and now has a glorified human body.
One key verse of Scripture implies that ordinarily God is not visible even to spirit beings unless He chooses to manifest Himself in some way: "God was manifest in the flesh . . .seen of angels" (1Timothy 3:16)[/b]. At the least, if God did have some type of spirit body He certainly was not confined to it like other spirit beings are confined to their bodies, for then , He would not truly be omnipresent. For example, God"s omnipresence means He could have appeared at the same time to angels in heaven and people on earth. Also , we must realize that in NT times God had chosen to reveal Himself fully thru Jesus Christ.(Colossians 2:9).[/b] There is no possibility of separating God and Jesus, and there is no God visible outside Jesus.
Not only did the Sonship have a beginning, but it will, in at least one sense, have an ending. This is evident from 1Corinthians 15:23-28[/b]. In particular, verse 24[/b] says, "Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father." [/b]Verse 28[/b] says, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." This passage of Scripture is impossible to explain if one thinks of a "God the Son" who is co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father. But it is easily explained if we realize that "Son of God" refers to a specific role that God temporarily assumed for the purpose of redemption. When the reasons for the Sonship cease to exist, God will cease acting in His role as Son, and the Sonship will be submerged back into the greatness of God, who will return to His original role as Father, Creator, and Ruler of all. Ephesians 5:27[/b] describes the same scene in different terms: "That he [Christ] might present it unto himself a glorious church[/b]." Jesus will present the church to Himself! How can this be, in light of 1 Corinthians 15:24[/b], which describes the Son presenting the kingdom to His Father? The answer is clear: Jesus in His role as Son, and as His final act as Son, will present the church to Himself in His role as God the Father.
We find another indication that the Sonship has an ending. In Acts 2:34-35[/b], Peter quoted David in Psalm110:1[/b]: "The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thy foes thy footstool[/b]." We should note the word until[/i]. This passage describes the dual nature of Christ, with the Spirit of God (the Lord) speaking prophetically to the human manifestation of Christ (the Lord). The right hand of God represents God"s power and authority. Making foes a footstool means utterly defeating the enemy and making an open show of their defeat. So the prophesy in Psalm 110 is this: The Spirit of God will give all power and authority to the man Jesus Christ, the Son of God, until[/i] the Son has completely vanquished the enemies of sin and the devil. The Son will have all power until[/i] He does this. What happens to the Son after this? Does this mean an eternal person of a trinity will stop sitting on the right hand of God or lose all power? No. It simply means that the role of the Son as ruler will cease. God will use His role as Son- God manifest in flesh- to conquer satan, thereby fulfilling Genisis 3:15[/b], in which God said the seed of the woman would bruise the head of the devil. After that, God will no longer need the human role to rule.
After satan is cast into the Lake of Fire and all sin is judged at the last judgment (Revelation 20),[/b] there will be no further need for the Son to exersize the throne of power. Jesus Christ will cease acting in His Sonship role and be God forever.
Does this mean that God will cease using the resurrected and glorified body of Christ? I believe that Jesus will continue to use His glorified body throughout eternity. This is indicated by Revelation 22:3-4[/b], which describes a visible God even after the last judgment and after the creation of the new heaven and new earth: "And there shall be no more curse; but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him; and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads[/b]." Jesus is the priest forever after the order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:21),[/b] even though He will cease acting in His role as priest after the last judgment. The Lord"s glorified human body is immortal just like ours will be (John 3;2; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54)[/b]. Although the glorified body of Christ will continue to exist, all the reasons for the reign of the Son will be gone and all the roles played by the Son will be over. Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.
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If God is only one person, why did Jesus say in John 14:23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." If God is only one person, why does Jesus say, "we"?[/b]
Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (ICorinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).
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Oneness theology teaches that God was in the mode of the Father in the Old Testament. God was seen in the OT (not as a vision or a dream or an angel in the following verses: Exo. 6:2-3; Gen. 19:24; Num. 12:6-8). But, Jesus said no one has seen the Father (John 6:46). If they were seeing God Almighty (Exo. 6:2-3) but it wasn't the Father, then who was it?
One way that God revealed Himself in the OT and dealt with humans on their level was thru the use of theophanies. A theophany is a visible manifestation of God, and we usually think of it as temporary in nature. As we have seen, God is invisible to humans. To make Himself visible, He manifested Himself in a physical form. Even tho no human can see the Spirit of God, they can see a representation of God. Below are some ways in which God chose to manifest Himself in the OT.
God appeared to Abraham in a vision, as a smoking furnace and a burning lamp, and as a man (Genesis 15:1, 17; 18:1-33). In this last instance, God and two angels appeared in the form of three men (18:2) and ate food provided by Abraham. The two angels left to go to Sodom while God remained to talk to Abraham (Genesis 18:22; 19:1).
God appeared to Jacob in a dream and as a man (Genesis28 ;12-16; 32:24-32). On the latter occasion Jacob wrestled with the man and proclaimed, "I have seen God face to face." The Bible also describes this appearance as "the angel" (Hosea 12:4).
God appeared to Moses in a cloud of glory and in fire on Mount Sinai, spoke to him face to face in the Tabernacle, and revealed to him His back (partial glory) but not His face (all His glory) (Exodus 24:12-18; 33:9-11, 18-23). These references to God"s face and God"s glory probably are metaphoric of the presence of God and could apply to many different types of manifestations.
God manifested in the sight of all Israel thru thunder, lightnings, a cloud, a voice of a trumpet, smoke, fire, and earthquakes (Exodus 19:11-19; Deuteronomy 5:4-5, 22-27). He also showed His glory and sent fire from His presence in the sight of all Israel (Leviticus 9:23-24; 10:1-2).
Job saw God in a whirlwind (Job 38:1; 42:5). Various prophets saw visions of God (Isaiah 6; Ezekiel 1:26-28; 8:1-4; Daniel 7:2, 9; Amos 9:1). To Ezekiel He appeared in the form of a man, enveloped in fire. To Daniel, He appeared in a night vision as the Ancient of Days. Many other verses of Scripture tell us that God appeared to someone but do not describe in what manner He did so. For example, God appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Samuel (Genesis 12:7; 17:1; 26:2; 24; 35:9-15; 1Samuel 3:21). Similarly, God descended on Mount Sinai and stood with Moses; revealed Himself to seventy four leaders of Israel; came down in a pillar of cloud and stood in front of Moses, Aaron, and Miriam; came at night to Balaam; and met Balaam on two other occasions (Exodus 34:5; 24:9-11; Numbers 12:4-9; 23:3-10, 16:24).
In addition to the appearances mentioned above, the Bible records other manifestations that many believe were God Himself. In Joshua 5:13-15, a man with a sword appeared to Joshua and identified himself as the "captain of the host of the Lord." This title and the fact that he did not rebukeJoshua for worshipping him ( Unlike Revelation 19:9-10; 22:8-10) suggest that this really was a manifestation of God. On the other hand, the wording of this passage leaves open the possibility that Joshua did not worship the captain but worshipped God for the captains appearance.
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Does oneness doctrine teach that tongues is a necessary sign of salvation? Can a non oneness pentacostal be saved?
There are different types of oneness, just as there are different types of Pentecostals. The UPC that I attend does teach that if we repent and are baptized in Jesus name that we will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit evidenced with tongues. Can a non-oneness Pentecostal be saved? . . . . .I was.
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__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
It appears to me that there is a mentality among some believers that once God is manifest as The Father, He cannot ever be, or fulfill any other role, or be manifest in any other role or relationship except that of The Father. He must forever remain The Father and nothing else. The same with the manifestation of The Son and The Holy Ghost. Once revealed, or manifest in that relationship, he is forever prohibited from any other office in Heaven, position in The Godhead, or manifestation, unto mankind. To remain consistant in that thinking, don't we have to examine every revelation of God unto man and include that manifestation as a "person" in the Godhead?
It was recently said that whether Trinity or Oneness, we all say that we believe in one God. Yet it is said that if the "one and only" God is manifest as the Father, it is false doctrine to say that the same "one and only" God could ever be manifest as The Son, or The Holy Ghost, as these are separate and distince, one from the other. If God The Father is separate and apart from God The Son, ( a term never used in all the scripture is God The Son), and apart from God The Holy Ghost, we have created three Gods working together in unity but not one God in three manifestations, offices, roles, or relationships to man.
Concider the story of the drowning man who was pulled to safety bo a passing stranger. Years later the saved man ran afoul of the law and was brought before a judge. He reconized the judge and in hopes of finding favor reminded the judge that he had saved his life. The judge replied, then I was your savior, but today, I am your judge. Was his savior and his judge two separate and distinct persons? Were they not one and the same? Is it not the same with God and his relationships with mankind?
The oneness position effectively divides the one person of Christ into two persons, the Father and the Son, by splitting Jesus into two separate, not unified, parts. Jesus is either divine or He is not. He is either the God-man in one person, or He is not. I see it as the oneness position is saying its ok to have Jesus be two persons but not ok to make God in three persons. We cannot have Jesus be his own Father in respect to his deity and the son in respect to his humanity. For a son to be his own father is illogical and the oneness position must backpeddle and erringly divide the natures of Christ into two persons, not one.
The doctrine of the trinity says that there is one God in three persons. Each person has a will. This does not necessitate the existence of three gods and this issue has been discussed throughout Christian history. Nevertheless, we see in scripture that only one God is proclaimed and yet the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have wills and are each called God. A will denotes identity and self awareness. The Father has a will and the Son has a will. Are the two wills really one will? Of course not. If you and me find we agree on a matter we might say we are one. It does not mean we are one person if we share a common desire.
For as Jesus praying from his human side to his divine side is again making Jesus into two seperate persons. And that he would still be praying to himself. You could use your argument both ways. I could just as easily say that the human side of Jesus was praying to God the father and he would not be inferior because he still had his divine side.
I don't feel the need to get into a lengthy discussion on baptism seeing how we have 30 pages already on baptismal regeneration. But I would like to know a little more about why you baptise only in the name of Jesus. Do you believea believer would besaved ifthey were baptised in the name of the father, son and holy ghost?
Mac, Am I corrrect in understanding that you don't believe a person has to speak in tongues to be saved?
The oneness position effectively divides the one person of Christ into two persons, the Father and the Son, by splitting Jesus into two separate, not unified, parts. Jesus is either divine or He is not. He is either the God-man in one person, or He is not. I see it as the oneness position is saying its ok to have Jesus be two persons but not ok to make God in three persons. We cannot have Jesus be his own Father in respect to his deity and the son in respect to his humanity. For a son to be his own father is illogical and the oneness position must backpeddle and erringly divide the natures of Christ into two persons, not one.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
I have a question of you Dabowhunter . . .just out of curiosity for a study I'm doing . . .simple question . .do you believe the flesh of Christ to be divine?
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The doctrine of the trinity says that there is one God in three persons. Each person has a will. This does not necessitate the existence of three gods and this issue has been discussed throughout Christian history. Nevertheless, we see in scripture that only one God is proclaimed and yet the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have wills and are each called God. A will denotes identity and self awareness. The Father has a will and the Son has a will. Are the two wills really one will? Of course not. If you and me find we agree on a matter we might say we are one. It does not mean we are one person if we share a common desire.
Your exactly correct in that the "doctrine of the trinity" does indeed say that. The problem is that I don't serve the doctrine of the trinity but instead prefer the doctrine of the Word of God which states that God is one.
The Word is riddled with statements such as Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Can you find as many verses that so pointedly say that God is three persons? Nope, you need the teachings of pagan Rome to explain that.
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I don't feel the need to get into a lengthy discussion on baptism seeing how we have 30 pages already on baptismal regeneration. But I would like to know a little more about why you baptise only in the name of Jesus. Do you believea believer would besaved ifthey were baptised in the name of the father, son and holy ghost?
What is the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost? Is the Father's name Father? Is the Son's name Son? Is the Holy Ghost's name Holy Ghost? I'm sorry but this lack of understanding amazes me even tho I know it's not your fault but for the life of me I just can't see why this is not understood. There is no other name given to us that we can be saved by except the name of Jesus. Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. In every actual recorded baptism mentioned from Acts on, you will see that it was carried out in Jesus name. You can take what I believe about anothers salvation and 50 cents and you might be able to buy a cup of coffee in some places. What difference does it make what I believe, I'm not the judge one will have to pass thru. But since you ask I will go so far as to say that I believe we will not just stagger into heaven . . .I believe that we will need to walk the sure path and that along the way we will needs to make preparation. I believe that it is in Jesus name or it's hell.
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Mac, Am I corrrect in understanding that you don't believe a person has to speak in tongues to be saved?
No, you would'nt be correct in understanding that nor would you be correct in saying that I stated that one does have to speak in tongues to be saved. I steer completly away from the judgement calls regardless of my understanding. I believe that if we repent, confess our sins, get baptized in Jesus name that we will recieve the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Anything past that is pure speculation on my part and I keep that to myself. I don't believe that the salvation formula was given to us as a riddle or a parable, but that we were given a straight out answer when Peter was asked "what shall we do?". And when Peter answered, he answered straight out and plain enough for all to understand . .Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. I also believe this applies for today, to all who are called in Jesus name . . .Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Thought I would share this with you all..... is dedicated to christians who,after hearing all the facts about the 1st centuryAssembly and the christian church's history,still reject the Hebraic teachings of their faith and cling to 'two elect' doctrine <yuck>or replacement doctrine<double yuck!!>or false teachings Triple yuuuuk !. I hope this doesn't offend anyone. To me,it's a humerous depiction of a perplexing reality. Shavua Tov to All [/align][/align][/align][/align]
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"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
The Godhead: Part 1
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