it seams a little more then ironic that this scripture is so miss under stood.
yes Jesus did say it but he in noway was he suggesting that he and the father were the same person. to give an example .
What he meant by this expression he himself made clear later when he prayed regarding his followers that "they may be one just as we are one." (John 17:22) Jesus and his Father are "one" in that Jesus is in full harmony with his Father. And he prayed that all his followers might likewise be in harmony with his Father, with Jesus and with one another.
"I have given them the glory which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.""John 17:22.
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10,11 - "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior." Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)
Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer) 2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - "To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"
Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone) John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14[/b] - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 - "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 8:24 - "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins."
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, "I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"
John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Acts 4:12 - "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood) Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)
Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 22:13 - "I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."... 22:16 - "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches."
[hr]
Hebrews 2:17,18 - "Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted." Hebrews 4:15,16 - "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need." 1 Peter 2:24 - "who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness[/b] - by whose stripes you were healed."
He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you. John 15:13 - "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends."
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"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
As a man Jesus was one with the Father in the sense of unity and purpose( This is what He was asking His followers to be). As God, Jesus is one with the Father in the sense of identity with the Father- in the sense that He is the Father manifested in the flesh. (John 10:30; 14:9)
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
As a man Jesus was one with the Father in the sense of unity and purpose( This is what He was asking His followers to be). As God, Jesus is one with the Father in the sense of identity with the Father- in the sense that He is the Father manifested in the flesh. (John 10:30; 14:9)
Mac, I know your beliefs. Mine are different.
I must point out that Jesus was not the Father in the flesh...he was the Son in the flesh. The Father, Son, and HS are the same...but different in roles and authority. Jesus prayed to the Father while he was on earth...he wasn't praying to himself. Also, when the Father said, "this is my beloved son" it wasn't Jesus's miraculous voice coming from Heaven, it was the Father's. The Father was in Heaven, Jesus the son was on earth in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit descended on him.
The same as that they're all deity and all God. Different in that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have differences in authority and roles.
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πνεύμα γ*μισα
"Error never shows itself in its naked reality in order not to be discovered. On the contrary, it dresses elegantly, so that the unwary may be led to believe that it is more truthful than truth itself."
-Irenaeus of Lyon
Isaiah 43:10,11 - "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He.Before Me there was no God formed,Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior."
Rev.22:13
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
The Father was in Heaven, Jesus the son was on earth in the flesh,
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The thing about it is Fro, we all pretty much agree except to the numerical aspect of God and specific terminology. The above Scripture I just lifted out this morning as it came to mind and it may or may not say anything to you, I don't mean for it to address your entire post. I just had a minute before work.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I must point out that Jesus was not the Father in the flesh...he was the Son in the flesh.
I agree that the flesh was not the Father . . .the flesh was humanity (the Son). He was, in His deity . . .God, Jehovah, the everlasting Father.
Quote:
The Father, Son, and HS are the same...but different in roles and authority.
I would agree that these three manifestations of God are One and the same. But if they have differing authorities, then one is subordinate to the other and therefore by definition could'nt truely be a god.
Quote:
Jesus prayed to the Father while he was on earth...he wasn't praying to himself.
Jesus , in His humanity prayed and yeilded to the Deity. In His deity, he had no one to pray to.
Quote:
The same as that they're all deity and all God. Different in that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have differences in authority and roles.
As I said, I really have a problem with the big God/little God concept. Being subordinate in any way to any other by definition is not a god.
At any rate, I'm not adamant in trying to convince others . . .i can't do that, as it is only revealed by the Father. But I will try to answer to any question posed if time permits me. Right now I am doing something that is pretty monumental given my limited typing abilities. It's something that I have been putting off for some time and I'm not getting any younger you know.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I must point out that Jesus was not the Father in the flesh...he was the Son in the flesh. The Father, Son, and HS are the same...but different in roles and authority.
FroMan; Your qoute above is so close to oneness that most would not see the difference. You say that the Father, Son, and HG are the same. I agree. There is only one God, so the Son is the same God as the Father, The HS is the same God as the Son, and he is the same God as the Father. The Father is the same God as the Son. Any other way equals multiple Gods which the scripture knows nothing about. But different in roles. Again this is biblical truth IMO. But how do we get the one and same God having more and less authority without ceasing to be God in some area? Scripturally, where do we find God when he is not completely God? Is he ever partially God? Isn't the Father God 100% all the time? Isn't the Son 100% God all the time? Isn't the HS 100% God all the time? Isn't the only difference, the role, or office in which God is revealed in at that point in time?
We must remember that God is a (singular) Spirit. Jesus said that a spirit hath not flesh and bones. Therefore the flesh could not be God, but God could be in that flesh and bones. God was in Christ=The Spirit was in the flesh. While the One Spirit of God was in the flesh, he didn't cease to be God through out the universe. He was still the Father in Heaven while he was in the flesh upon the earth. The Spirit is life and cannot be killed by hanging the Spirit upon a tree. This is why the flesh that was upon the cross, cried out, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me. God that was in Christ, withdrew from that fleshly body in order for death to claim it. But Jesus has already said to the Jews, destroy this body,(flesh) and in three days I, (God)will raise it, (the flesh)up.
i and the father are one
