I would say that faith requires a responce by it's very nature. Any thoughts on this? Does it tie in with "works".
This is not a set-up as I've already stated my position, but I do have a lot more I could add . . . .right now tho I don't know just how much . .or how little I should say.
Grace thru faith . . .does that mean that if we have faith like a kid does in Santa Claus . . .that as long as we believe in him he will reward us on that wonderful day?
Is faith more than believing or does it require a responce? Does the Lord want just a confession or a possesion?
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
It is clear to me that folks like Chuck love God as much as anyone...so whose love grows cold?
Thanks
mr-pirk
I appreciate the kind words Mr. Pirk but
I believe Leaf is stating does faith require action or is it merely a confession statement ? The answer..faith requires much more than a mental acknowledgement of the Lord Jesus Christ and water baptism.Faith demonstrates itselfby producing fruit / works of love as Mr. Pirk, Reband a few others pointed out before. Whether one words it in a way that speaks of an inward work or one saying they are obeying the gospel it doesn't matter.A living faith is demonstrated by a changed life...inwardly and outwardly.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Chucks on the same trail I'm on in this thread. I've been reading all of the threads on eternal salvation and see much I agree and disagree with. Much confusion seems to be generated from each individual opinion being tossed in the mix and when thats coupled with twisting words it gets even more confusing, so I've pretty much stayed out of it and tried to line up my own thoughts on the subject.
First of all redemption is the deliverance from the power and penalty of sin. When we are redeemed, we are delivered not only from the penalty of sin , but also from the power of sin. We have to have faith in that and our responce to that is to act on it.
Many here are correct in that the Bible teaches us that we are saved by grace thru faith and not by works. No doubt, it's taught by Scripture and is a landmark verse to me: Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
We don't earn our salvation thru good works, or by sacrifice, or by church attendance, ceremonys, etc. It's only God's grace , extended to us thru Jesus' sacrifice on the cross that can cleanse us of our sins. Gods grace is for all. . . .without partiality. It cannot be bought or earned, but for it to save us we must recieve it by believing in Jesus Christ.
Other landmark verses to me are: Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Faith, right by itself does not save us tho, one can have faith in a lot of things and still be lost. Saving faith includes confessing that Jesus is Lord, believing in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, and calling upon the name of Jesus.(Romans 10:9 and 13 . .landmark verses)
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Saving faith, comes from hearing the Gospel message and is inseperably fused with obediance to that message. The salvation experiance comes by grace thru faith, but to profess faith alone is not the salvation experiance. Saving faith is an obediant faith, as faith is equated with calling upon His name, confessing Jesus death and resurection, repenting of our sins, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and recieving the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Romans 10:8-16; Mark 1:15; 16:16; Acts 5:32; John 7:38-39)
Just to say that we accept Jesus as our Saviour is not adequate . . . .faith without obediance is just a profession without possession. Here it is in a nutshell . . .Faith sees God's love, grace, and mercy in the death of His Son on the cross and then obeys his plan of salvation. Faith replaces the mindset that we are calling the shots, for it then thru obediance answers to the plan that God has made for us.
What I believe is being overlooked is that the goal of God's grace is not primarily for a person to possess faith but for sinners to be reconciled to God thru obediant faith in His plan of forgiveness of sins and spiritual regeneration by the Holy Ghost. Having a saving faith and obeying God's plan of salvation by following the steps He has laid out for us will without a doubt produce good works.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God"s undeserved kindness. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin atoning value of the sacrifice of his Son. Heb. 5:9 : "He (Jesus) became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." Does this conflict with the statement that Christians are "saved through faith? Not at all. Obedience simply demonstrates that their faith is genuine.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
response= An answer by word or act. Reaction of body or mind to a stimulus.
In light of these definitions, I must say that faith always produces a response. Faith can be defined as a belief in something, or someone. When one hears the word of God and believes, or has faith in that word, it is impossible to have no response to God's word. That response may be positive or negative, but will receive a response. One will either respond with obedience to that belief in the Word, or it will receive a willing response of disobedience and neglect. Obedience is a response, or work. Disobedience is also a response or work. Either is apurposeful, wilful, choice and response to the stimulas of the word of God which has pricked the heart and penetrated the mind of the hearer.
The above is MO. Lets look at a couple of scriptures.
Gal 3:6-7 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
V7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:11 The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on christ.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, if ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Have you noticed that Jesus has said, if you are the children of the Father of the faithful, you will do his works. Abraham's life was a life of responding to God's word with obedient works, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
Matthew 12-43When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. I believe these verses are telling us after we are saved we need works to build and maintain our faith. It's like you clean your garage out and fill it with good works. It gives the devil little room to move in. If we start getting lazy about keeping the garage in order. The next thing you know it is full of trash.
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For ever running, but losing the race. If it were not for grace.
I believe these verses are telling us after we are saved we need works to build and maintain our faith. It's like you clean your garage out and fill it with good works. It gives the devil little room to move in. If we start getting lazy about keeping the garage in order. The next thing you know it is full of trash.
Yes brother, you can have all the Faith and Works, but if you don't have the Obedience, you have nothing!
__________________
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Responce
