God's elect

[DaveH]

Let me preface this thread by stating that I do not believe in limited atonement. I believe the Christ died for the sins of ALL men and that this is supported many places in scripture- for example 1 Peter 2:2.

Since EVERY man can receive the gift of God's grace, how do we reconcile the following passage with that belief? Note especially the parts I highlighted.

Romans 9

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

[Chuck7]

Excellent Study here Dave. I don't have much comment on those verse except for what it says to me.

A. Who are we do try and figure out God...just be glad you are one of those who are saved.
B. And like Paul reminded us." Should the clay argue with the potter ?" Absolutely not..not me anyway.
C. God can do as He wishes. AS Jesus said to Mary." Whatsoever He telleth you to do ..do it."
Childlike faith 101

[DaveH]

Chuck, no argument here. I'm just trying to reconcile this with what I also know to be true according to scripture. I already know there are no contradictions in God's Word, but sometimes it takes a more learned Christian to expain what something means.

[Leafrivermac]

Dave, I view what is pre-election to us, as fore-knowledge to God.

He is "œthe only wise God"� (1Timothy 1:17)
God is love (1John 4:8), mercy (Psalm 103:8), gentleness (Psalm 18:35), rightiousness (Psalm 129:4), goodness (Romans 2:4), justice (Isaiah 45:21).
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Also: "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated".
The word "hate" in the Bible often needs a second glance, I have to get ready for church right now, but consider:
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Sometimes, it seems that when the Bible says "love one and hate the other" it means to place one above the other. As we are to have a higher place for God in our priorities than we have for our families or for our own lives.

[Leafrivermac]

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I found this interesting, . . .it's a comment in our Nelson Study Bible:

What if: Some insist that Paul is raising only the possibility of a vessel designed for destruction. Others take the passage literally that God prepares some for eternal doom.
prepared for destruction . . .prepared beforehand for glory: The grammatical structure of the first prepared, referring to the vessels of wrath, is differnt from the second prepared, referring to the vessels of mercy. The first literally means "prepared themselves", while the second is "which He prepared".
If we are doomed , it is because of our rejection of God; if we are redeemed, it is because of the grace of God.
The question is not "why are some saved and others condemned?" Everyone deserves condemnation. It is only by God's grace that anyone is saved.

[Alex The Hawk]

It is all on the Sovereignty Of God as King and Creator.
He will choose or elect whom He will spend eternity with.
Wouldn't you if you had the Power ?

[DaveH]

ORIGINAL: Alex The Hawk

It is all on the Sovereignty Of God as King and Creator. He will choose or elect whom He will spend eternity with. Wouldn't you if you had the Power ?

If I could pick and choose who went, I'm not sure my choices would all line up with His!

I believe that ALL men can receive the gift of salvation. Many verses in scripture make this very clear, but can also see the verses that show us that God chose us. I've always believed the same thing that Mac pointed out. I brought this up since it seemed like a topic that merits discussion based on the recent obedience thread.