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Old 05-16-2006, 06:47 AM   #1
 
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Default Sabbath day

From dusk on friday till dusk on sat is supposed to be sabbath day...
The christians moved it to sunday on top of pegans worship day of the sun...We did the same for christmas,,It was a pegan holiday...My question, was this wrong to do??? The christmas tree was for the pegans to I believe yet we decorate it as they done and celibrate Jesus birthday on a pegans holiday..Is this not wrong to...I read in the bible about a phrase that reminded me of the christmas tree and wasn't sure if it was the christmas tree or if I took it wrong..Are we actually sinning because of what has been done to crush the pegans ways of religion by doing as they have done????
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Old 05-16-2006, 08:12 AM   #2
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Default RE: Sabbath day

First, IMO, a Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christ's birth and viseversa. I myself don't like Christmas trees that much for that purpose. I know its a cultural thing that has been handed down. You can make anything wrong if you make it take place of the Lord, our God. That has definately happened with the Christmas tree. I have a feeling most kids now, don't associate our savior, our Lord, our God, and how significant his birth was to Dec. 25. Even I didn't as much as I should.

Its fairly simple I think. You start sinning when the meaning takes the place Christs birth.

Now sunday, I sure dont' feel like its taking on a new meaning other then thats the desinated day I put more effort and time into worshiping the Lord our God. So converting pagans to Christianity and putting aside a day for worship, that they usually use, I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact I think its a good thing.

But what I am having trouble understanding, especially after reading thru Isaiah, when did Sat. lose its Holiness to Christians. Was thier a new conventant where Sat. ceased being the Sabbath? Can't find it anywhere.

Good thought provoking question.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:21 AM   #3
 
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Default RE: Sabbath day

One of my favorite web sites:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm


"Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology. The seven planets, known to us as Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them, and the planet which was regent during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name to that day (see CALENDAR). During the first and second century the week of seven days was introduced into Rome from Egypt, and the Roman names of the planets were given to each successive day. The Teutonic nations seem to have adopted the week as a division of time from the Romans, but they changed the Roman names into those of corresponding Teutonic deities. Hence the dies Solis became Sunday (German, Sonntag). Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God. The practice of meeting together on the first day of the week for the celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is indicated in Acts, xx 7; I Cor., xvi, 2; in Apoc., i, 10, it is called the Lord's day. In the Didache (xiv) the injunction is given: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks (offer the Eucharist), after confessing your sins that your sacrifice may be pure". St. Ignatius (Ep. ad Magnes. ix) speaks of Christians as "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also Our Life rose again". In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i. e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".
St. Justin is the first Christian writer to call the day Sunday (I Apol., lxvii) in the celebrated passage in which he describes the worship offered by the early Christians on that day to God. The fact that they ment together and offered public worship on Sunday necessitated a certain rest from work on that day. However, Tertullian (202) is the first writer who expressly mentions the Sunday rest: "We, however (just as tradition has taught us), on the day of the Lord's Resurrection ought to guard not only against kneeling, but every posture and office of solicitude, deferring even our businesses lest we give any place to the devil" ("De orat.", xxiii; cf. "Ad nation.", I, xiii; "Apolog.", xvi).
These and similar indications show that during the first three centuries practice and tradition had consecrated the Sunday to the public worship of God by the hearing of the Mass and the resting from work. With the opening of the fourth century positive legislation, both ecclesiastical and civil, began to make these duties more definite. The Council of Elvira (300) decreed: "If anyone in the city neglects to come to church for three Sundays, let him be excommunicated for a short time so that he may be corrected" (xxi). In the Apostolic Constitutions, which belong to the end of the fourth century, both the hearing of the Mass and the rest from work are prescribed, and the precept is attributed to the Apostles. The express teaching of Christ and St. Paul prevented the early Christians from falling into the excesses of Jewish Sabbatarianism in the observance of the Sunday, and yet we find St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. He especially insisted on the people hearing the whole of the Mass and not leaving the church after the Epistle and the Gospel had been read. He taught them that they should come to Vespers and spend the rest of the day in pious reading and prayer. As with the Jewish Sabbath, the observance of the Christian Sunday began with sundown on Saturday and lasted till the same time on Sunday. Until quite recent times some theologians taught that there was an obligation under pain of venial sin of assisting at vespers as well as of hearing Mass, but the opinion rests on no certain foundation and is now commonly abandoned. The common opinion maintains that, while it is highly becoming to be present at Vespers on Sunday, there is no strict obligation to be present. The method of reckoning the Sunday from sunset to sunset continued in some places down to the seventeenth century, but in general since the Middle Ages the reckoning from midnight to midnight has been followed. When the parochial system was introduced, the laity were taught that they must hear Mass and the preaching of the Word of God on Sundays in their parish church. However, toward the end of the thirteenth century, the friars began to teach that the precept of hearing Mass might be fulfilled by hearing it in their churches, and after long and severe struggles this was expressly allowed by the Holy See. Nowadays, the precept may be fulfilled by hearing Mass in any place except a strictly private oratory, and provided Mass is not celebrated on a portable altar by a privilege which is merely personal.
The obligation of rest from work on Sunday remained somewhat indefinite for several centuries. A Council of Laodicea, held toward the end of the fourth century, was content to prescribe that on the Lord's Day the faithful were to abstain from work as far as possible. At the beginning of the sixth century St. Caesarius, as we have seen, and others showed an inclination to apply the law of the Jewish Sabbath to the observance of the Christian Sunday. The Council held at Orleans in 538 reprobated this tendency as Jewish and non-Christian. From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at eh present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. It begins with an Edict of Constantine, the first Christian emperor, who forbade judges to sit and townspeople to work on Sunday. He made an exception in favour of agriculture. The breaking of the law of Sunday rest was punished by the Anglo-Saxon legislation in England like other crimes and misdemeanours. After the Reformation, under Puritan influence, many laws were passed in England whose effect is still visible in the stringency of the English Sabbath. Still more is this the case in Scotland. There is no federal legislation in the United States on the observance of the Sunday, but nearly all the states of the Union have statues tending to repress unnecessary labour and to restrain the liquor traffic. In other respects the legislation of the different states on this matter exhibits considerable variety. On the continent of Europe in recent years there have been several laws passed in direction of enforcing the observance of Sunday rest for the benefit of workmen."


I know Barnabus talks about early Christians and eigth day.So some were observing itaround time of Paul. Don't know if this helps??

Den

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Old 05-16-2006, 09:50 AM   #4
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Default RE: Sabbath day

"Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy" is the only one of the 10 Commandments not reinstated in some form or fashion in the New Testament. There were many restrictions that went along with observing the Sabbath.

As Denny noted, the example the apostles set for us was to come together on the first day of the week. I think there is more significance to this than we realize. The Bible doesn't say "meet on Sunday", the example given is "the first day of the week". The way I see it, if for some reason or the other Friday was designated as the first day of the week, then we should meet on Friday.

For my part, it has absolutely nothing to do with pagan beliefs, any more than a Christmas tree replaces Christ in this house. I'm not a pagan, I don't worship as a pagan, and I'm not worried about my son becoming a pagan because we put up a tree and exchange gifts at Christmas time--it's simply a tradition. It wouldn't suprise me if the tradition of having family reunions could be somehow traced back to pagan roots, but that doesn't affect me in the least either. The names for the days of the week that we all usecome frompagan roots--anyone worried about this corrupting their beliefs?

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But what I am having trouble understanding, especially after reading thru Isaiah, when did Sat. lose its Holiness to Christians. Was thier a new conventant where Sat. ceased being the Sabbath?
BC, Saturday was never instated as a holy day for Christians--it was Jewish law. Christ gave us the new covenant and established the rules for it. If we were not under a new covenant, then we should still have "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life", stoning for many offences (including disobedient children), many foods would be off-limits, etc. etc.

Chad
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:04 AM   #5
 
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Default RE: Sabbath day

The Sbbath as instituted the day after creation ended and it is made so man can rest, even today.
Sunday was instituted as a day of worship by Constantine or his mother, in order to separated from the Jewish roots of the true Church.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:13 AM   #6
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Default RE: Sabbath day

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ORIGINAL: LBR

BC, Saturday was never instated as a holy day for Christians--it was Jewish law. Christ gave us the new covenant and established the rules for it. If we were not under a new covenant, then we should still have "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life", stoning for many offences (including disobedient children), many foods would be off-limits, etc. etc.

Chad
Yes, he did give us a new covenant. But, after reading thru Isaiah, remembering the Sabbath was a pretty big deal. I would hate to meet my maker and not find out more about it.

You can say the Jewish Sabbath was thier covenant. But, if you look at it as the 7days of creation, that has nothing to do with Jacob/Abraham or thier covenant. I just hope Christ didn't have more planned for it and we neglected.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:41 AM   #7
 
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Default RE: Sabbath day

Pagans hunted. Pagans married. Pagans were buried. Pagans built homes. Pagans made clothing. Pagans loved their famlies. Pagans assited their nieghbors in times of need. Pagans used fire to cook their food. Who the heck cares? Your gonna tell me that because a pagan used a tree to decorate for yule, I cant us one to decorate for my savior's birthday? Ok, do you realize how many pagans drive Fords? Therefore, you shouldnt drive a Ford. If you feel more comfortable NOT decorating a tree for Christ's birthday, feel free. There is no sin in putting up a tree as symbol of the Christmas season. The sin enters in when we forget the reason we celebrate Christmas. Not because of a tree, string of lights, tinsel, or the ham on the dinner table. I think God approves of family gathered together remembering the birth of his son and being thankful for the promise of deliverance that birth gave us.


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Old 05-16-2006, 10:42 AM   #8
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Default RE: Sabbath day

BC, I honestly haven't studied it in quite a while, but I know that it was one of the 10 Commandments given to the Israelites. Christ was even chastised for healing on the Sabbath.

Again, the apostles gave us the example of coming together on the first day of the week. I don't follow what Constantine did.

If it was something we needed to do, Christ would have told us. We have no Biblical example of Christ or the apostles teaching Christians to keep the Sabbath. However, we do have a warning about trying to return to the Law in Galatians 5:4. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Chad
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:53 AM   #9
 
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Default RE: Sabbath day

If we gather to worship God and praise his name...does it matter when or where? Or is the worship of the Most Holy God the more important?

It is really helpful to read Romans chapter 14.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:56 AM   #10
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Default RE: Sabbath day

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ought Six

If we gather to worship God and praise his name...does it matter when or where? Or is the worship of the Most Holy God the more important?

It is really helpful to read Romans chapter 14.
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