Dear friends,
Let's see if we can discuss this doctrine out peacefully.
Afterstern admonition from Mgman44 I thought I'd give this doctrine another look.Strut mentioned the other day there are warnings all though the Bible . This is true. However ne can find quite a few precious promices that seem to support Eternal Security as well. As one who has been very dogmatically against Eternal Security let me share my newest feelings toward the matter. I have a very difficult time with over eatting. Last night my wife told me to pick up Aaron's prescription from the pharmacy. I said ok. I know there is a Mc Donalds right next door. We had just eatten. My flesh is thinking stop at Don's. I had no cash left in my wallet. We get a certain allowance per month. Payday is this Friday. However; I do have a jar of coins. I pulled out 5.00 in change ignoring the conviction all along thinking {You had a long hard day you deserve it.} My old doctrinal compromise.Hey you've grown alot thisovereatting will take care of it self in time NO ONE IS PERFECT. The famous copout. As I pulled up to the drive thru window I glanced toward Mc Donalds and then that calm inner voice spoke You are saved. What does a saved child of God look like. Is it one who shrinks back when tempted. or one that beleives God will make a way of escape. What I'm saying is ...my coonvictions have gotten more serious since I BELIEVED I'M SAVED not a license to sin. With tha tin mind. I put theExplorer in drive and went home. My desire is to demonstate what a real child of God looks like. The old way..we are all growing and striving growing and striving. The new thought. God has paid it all and in Himwe can and should overcome. Our work..to fan the flame of faith
Chuck7
Chuck7,
I don't want to get off the subject, But I know what your going through as far as over eating is concerened, I have a real problem with it. I'm not over weight for my height, because once I gain ten pounds or so I turn around and lose it. I truly believe we need to police ourselves with the way we eat, the same as we watch what we say and what we do ect...
As christians I feel we need to watch every aspect of our lives. Congrats Chuck7 for skipping Mc. Dons and going home!
My point wa my friend....many including myself have gone through our Christian life that Eternal Security folks are a joke. Myself included. But it has been a sobering thought to me...to say that you diffently are a child of God requires responsiblitiy on the proclaimers part to walk the talk. At least with the 'Striving ' professor there is room for error. This walk challenges me to prove it.Prove that you are eternally bound. Prove it by obedience and abiding. Th eother walk for me accepts failure as the expected norm. Charles Finny preached a holiness message similiar to this in the late 1800s.
Thanks for the encouragement about Mc Donalds. Eatting gives me great pleasure and has been a cross for me. The battles are won or lost in the mind. I feel more strenghth in my heart as I agree to the following promises.
Phil.13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
and the one in my signature.
I won"™t confuse this thread with my views on eternal security, but I will say that when we are truly saved, we will in no way be cast out. I do think however that our goal this side of the grave is to make sure of our salvation.
If we truly love the Lord, . . .if He is our Master . . .then we are His servent, and our goal is to present our part of His church without spot or wrinkle.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
What would worry me tho is (not judging) that so many attend services, or are even interested in theology without attendance, banking on eternal salvation, without having a one on one relationship with Christ. Viewing doctrine as a legal contract, possibly fooling oneself with a sense of security without ever really knowing God.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
We need to enter in by the narrow gate and be real sure of our salvation to start with. Some folk may be missing the boat by not making sure of their covenant with Jesus. The verses in Mathew show us that there are folk calling Lord, Lord, that have not turned their hearts over to Him.
This is just me talking from my understanding of the scriptures but I believe that our walk with Christ has to be a walk truly from our hearts meeting the requirements of scripture and obeying. We will never achieve perfection this side of our physical death but we hve an advocate with the Father . . . .and He knows us . . .everything about us . .what is real and what is not.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mac
Excellent reply my wise brother. I've also seen the extreme opposite among my Pentecostal brothers and sisters. They were so concerned about losing theitr salvation they literaly ended up in a nut house.
Chuck7
Okay am I missing the point????? There are sure a lot of you that think you can loose your salvation. I know there is not one person here that does not sin once an hour ( that would make you almost perfect). Either by sin of omission or by commission, right? Lets that would be about 12 sins a day, 4,380 sins a years in 50 years that would be 219,000 sins. What judge would not throw the book at you if you stood before him with that many offenses? What father here would disown a child because they disobeyed? I am one of those that believe that you cannot loose your salvation, if you are truly saved... There are a lot of people that claim they have been saved, but are not. They depend on their own good works for salvation negating what Jesus did on the cross, thus never trusting in Him for salvation... Do I understand that you guys are perfect and do not sin? Then where do you draw the line, this sin is okay and that one is not?
Okay am I missing the point????? There are sure a lot of you that think you can loose your salvation. Sorry if any confusion Rev. I've lived in a state of fear about losing my Salvation for years. I know Mgman44 was very ..?? different in his approach but he is about the 4 th man in my life who has basically said.Stop, and look around ..smell the roses God loves you. YOu are SAVED stopped doubting.I know there is not one person here that does not sin once an hour ( that would make you almost perfect). Either by sin of omission or by commission, right? Lets that would be about 12 sins a day, 4,380 sins a years in 50 years that would be 219,000 sins. What judge would not throw the book at you if you stood before him with that many offenses? Amen What father here would disown a child because they disobeyed?.I am one of those that believe that you cannot loose your salvation, if you are truly saved...That is the deal and the harm Rev. Some folks lead others to Christ telling them that they are Eternally Saved when actualy it is premature .They leave still loving the world and still unsaved but thinking they are saved.There are a lot of people that claim they have been saved, but are not.Amen and this is very sad.They depend on their own good works for salvation negating what Jesus did on the cross, thus never trusting in Him for salvation...Or they said a quick prayer and continue on loving this world.Do I understand that you guys are perfect and do not sin? You know better than tha tBob.I've confessed my sin to ya before in PMs.Then where do you draw the line, this sin is okay and that one is not? Good question For me with this new insight I'm doing my best through His inner strenghth not to bring reproach on His name nor the gospel. If we are to carry the name as Children of God who have eternal life than we owe it to God to trust in Him unto sanctification.
Chuck7
We can be saved and still mess up... After all we are a work in progress, until the Master calls us home. No one ever kicked himself harder than I did in my early walk. I would lose my temper, and I thought sure as day, I am going to hell! I was in and out of salvation until I came to the realization that I am a sinner and cannot be perfect. I try to live the best I can, but still I am human, and mess up. I don't have enough Holy Ghost when someone cuts me off the road without at least saying "Idiot" to myself... and that's a sin..
I hate to think we have brothers wondering if they were to stand before All Mighty God today they would not know if they were saved or not, what a shame! His blood was sufficient the first time, not permission to sin, but permission to be allowed back home again.
We can be saved and still mess up... After all we are a work in progress, until the Master calls us home. No one ever kicked himself harder than I did in my early walk. I would lose my temper, and I thought sure as day, I am going to hell! I was in and out of salvation until I came to the realization that I am a sinner and cannot be perfect. AMEN I hear that. I had to look in the mirror and say if your going to make it it will have to be by the grace of God I can't do it.I try to live the best I can, but still I am human, and mess up. I don't have enough Holy Ghost when someone cuts me off the road without at least saying "Idiot" to myself... and that's a sin.. Yes ...I've layed on the horn myself. and then immediately say What in the world is wrong with me .God set me free.Please. what a monster abides in me.I hate to think we have brothers wondering if they were to stand before All Mighty God today they would not know if they were saved or not, what a shame!THIS IS FOR SURE I HAVE SO MUCH MORE PEACE NOW. I THINK GOD HAS BEEN WAITING ALL ALONG FOR METO JUST GIVE UP AND ADMIT IT 'S BY HIS GRACE ALONE.His blood was sufficient the first time, not permission to sin, but permission to be allowed back home again. AMEN HIS BLOOD IS WHAT SAVES US NOW AND FOREVER MORE. AMEN C7
I don't think it's a question of "if " we sin . . .of course we do. To me it is a question of do we really love the Lord and have we given ourselves to Him. Are we even in the battle? Do we truley struggle against sin or do we embrace it and love it rather than the Lord.
I don't mean to lay condemnation on folk for shortcomings, Lord knows I have many. I believe we can have joy in the Lord, but we needs to confront and resist sin in our lives and that to me means that part of us will always be in a battle with some sin or another that may not yet be revealed to us. Sometimes we fall . . .sometimes we fall in our own eyes big time. But as long as we're loving God and hanging on I don't believe He's going to let us go but instead thru Christ we will gain victory . But lets ask ourselves where our heart is at.
This understanding works for me as it's unfanthanable to me that one can truley have a loving relationship with the Father and taste His goodness and have a "no strings attached" faith in Him and then just stop loving God.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Eternal Security..Let us reason together
ne can find quite a few precious promices that seem to support Eternal Security as well. As one who has been very dogmatically against Eternal Security let me share my newest feelings toward the matter. I have a very difficult time with over eatting. Last night my wife told me to pick up Aaron's prescription from the pharmacy. I said ok. I know there is a Mc Donalds right next door. We had just eatten. My flesh is thinking stop at Don's. I had no cash left in my wallet. We get a certain allowance per month. Payday is this Friday. However; I do have a jar of coins. I pulled out 5.00 in change ignoring the conviction all along thinking {You had a long hard day you deserve it.} My old doctrinal compromise.Hey you've grown alot thisovereatting will take care of it self in time NO ONE IS PERFECT. The famous copout. As I pulled up to the drive thru window I glanced toward Mc Donalds and then that calm inner voice spoke You are saved. What does a saved child of God look like. Is it one who shrinks back when tempted. or one that beleives God will make a way of escape. What I'm saying is ...my coonvictions have gotten more serious since I BELIEVED I'M SAVED not a license to sin. With tha tin mind. I put theExplorer in drive and went home. My desire is to demonstate what a real child of God looks like. The old way..we are all growing and striving growing and striving. The new thought. God has paid it all and in Himwe can and should overcome. Our work..to fan the flame of faith
I've confessed my sin to ya before in PMs.Then where do you draw the line, this sin is okay and that one is not? Good question For me with this new insight I'm doing my best through His inner strenghth not to bring reproach on His name nor the gospel. If we are to carry the name as Children of God who have eternal life than we owe it to God to trust in Him unto sanctification.
