This post is an answer to all those who embrace the idea of baptismal salvation, through scaramentalism ceremonialism, and the external mechanical act of water baptism.
A. Mark 16:16
Baptismal salvationists object, " Does not the Bible say, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved?" (Mark 16:16). Yes, the bible does teach that all who truly believe and are baptized shall be saved. This does not say, " If one believes and is baptized he shall be saved." If it had been the latter, then baptism would have been a necessary condition with which one would have to comply with to be saved. However is a mere declaration that the baptized believer shall be saved. Numerous other verses declare that one is saved at the point of belief in Christ before and without baptism. What one receives when he believes, he does not lose when he is baptized. ( John 3:16, 18; 5:24; Acts 16:31; Rom. 1:16). The latter part of Mark 16:16 declares, "He that believeth not shall be damned." If baptism had been a condition with which one had to comply in order to be saved, surely the Lord would have also placed it in the negative as He did all other things necessary to salvation. Here are four examples
1. One must hear the Word of God ( Luke 14:35; Rom.10:17). It is by hearing that one may and must be saved. Negatively it is said, " Every soul which will not hear shall be destroyed" ( Acts 3:23). In no place is it said by being baptized one may be saved or if he is not baptized he shall be destroyed.
2. Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary in order for one to be saved ( John 6:44; 16:8-11). Negatively it is declared that, " If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" ( Rom. 8:9 ). But in no place is it said, " If any man have not baptism he is none of His." Only heretics on the subject of salvation teach this.
3. Repentence is a means by which one receives salvation. It is a condition with which one must comply in oreder to be saved (Acts 17:30, 31; 11 Peter3:9). Negatively, it is written, "Except (if not) ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3.
4. Men who hear the Work of God, are convicted of sin guilt by the Holy Spirit, and repent of their sins at the command of the Lord, must also believe in or on Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. When one believes on Him with all his heart, and becomes a child of God, at the point of faith in Him ( Eph. 2:8, 9; 1 John 5:1; Acts 15:9; 16:31; Rom. 1:16 ; Gal. 3:26). Negatively it is said of this fourth and last condition requisite to ones salvation, " IF ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" ( John 8:24). In no place is it said, " If you are not baptized you shall die in your sins." Neither the noun "baptism, nor the verb "baptize" is used in the entire New Testament in the subjunctive mode or a conditional clause, with the promise that by man's subscribing to such he shall receive salvation .
One recieves a pure heart by faith in Christ, but he is never said to receive a pure heat by baptism ( Acts 15:9). One is said to be justified by faith, but one is never said to receive justification by or through baptism (Rom. 5:1; Acts 13:39. One is said to be a child of God by faith in Christ Jesus, but one is never said to be a child of God by or through baptism (Gal. 3:26).
B. John 3:5
Baptismal regenerationsits ask, "Does not the Bible say, "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"? ( Hohn 3:5. Yes, but what does it mean to be born of water and the Spirit? Whatever it means it has no reference to baptism. Baptism is a burial, not a birth. The meaning in this verse seems to be that Jesus distinctly emphasized to Nicodemus that even though he had been born of the flesh and could not do that again, it was possible and necessary for him to be born of the Sjpirit. He had already been born of the flesh ( the natural birth, called water birth) , but he had not been born of the Spirit. Jesus did not say, "Except you are born again of water and the Spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of God." He said, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see........or enter.....the kingdom of God" (John 3:3,5)
C. Acts 2:38
Does the bible say "Repent, and be baptized...for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38)? Yes it does. It was on the day ofPentacost after Peter had preached a sin indicting sermon to the crowd. The Jews who had heardsaid "Men andbrethren, what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37). Peter then replied, telling them not only what to do to get right with God but also what they shoulddo to right their lives before men. The command of his message for men to repent was made to all unsaved men; then the admonition to be baptized was made singularly to each who had genuinely repented. Repentance brought them remission of sins before God (Acts 11:18. This same Peter prached that through the name of Jesus whosoeverbelieves should receive remission of sins, asserting that all the prophets had preached the same way of salvation ( Acts 10:43).
" Does the Bible teach that men should be baptized unto Christ and put on Christ"? Yes (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3-5; Acts 22:16). What does it mean to be baptized into Christ, to put on Christ,, or to be baptized to wash away sins? No unsaved person was ever commanded to be baptized into Christ, to put on Christ, or to have his sins washed away by or through baptism. The persons who are addressed or about whom all the above statements are made are people who had already been saved. For instance , those who were said to have been baptized into Christ and put on Christ (Gal. 3:27 ) were only those who had first become "children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26). The "you" who had "put on Christ" who had first become children of God by faith, "not by baptism" in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:26).
I am most doubtfull this will have much effect on our modern day Pharisees and Sadducees who with their clean hands, pots and pans, ceremonial, sacramental, ritualistic, self-righteousness point the finger at us believers who refuse to accept heresies such as baptismal regeneration.
But I post this for those not familiar with the scripture, new believers, and any lost persons who may stumble into these threads. I also post this thread in memory of the millions of true believers who were viciously martyred for holding to the truth and refusing to accept the heretical Baptism of Rome......................dabow
Many deny this step is necessary to be saved. Yet the Bible lists is as necessary, just as plainly as it does the other steps: Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Is a person saved before or without baptism? No more so than he is saved before or without faith! Acts 2:38 - Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. Are sins remitted before or without baptism? No more so than they are remitted before or without repentance!
Peter was not talking to saved people, telling them what to do because they had been saved. He was talking to people in sin, telling them how to receive remission. The fact he told them to repent [/b]makes that clear. Acts 22:16 - And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Were sins washed away before baptism or without it? A person is in sin until he has been baptized! 1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism doth also now save us.
The Bible says baptism is necessary to salvation just as clearly as it does the other conditions. The source or power to forgive is not in the water, or in faith, repentance, or confession. The power is in Jesus' blood, but that power is applied to the individual when he meets the conditions. [Romans 6:3-7; Galatians 3:26,27]
__________________
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Let me ask , what happens if someone in war is shot and is dying and he accepts God's salvation at that moment ,he dies without being Baptised ,is He saved ?
Happens more often than you think.
__________________
"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
Let me ask , what happens if someone in war is shot and is dying and he accepts God's salvation at that moment ,he dies without being Baptised ,is He saved ?
Happens more often than you think.
Romans 10:9,10 - With the heart man believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
Note that faith alone is not enough. Here is a physical act that must be done with the mouth to be saved - one must confess. To deny we must do anything to be saved is to deny confession is necessary. [Matthew 10:32; 16:15-18; John 1:49; 4:42; 9:35-38; 11:27: 12:42,43; Acts 8:36-38; I Timothy 6:12,13; I John 4:15]
__________________
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
It's the same argument as has been brought up before. The main difference is you took the time to add some colorful name-calling to the mix. According to you, the Bible doesn't really mean what it says, but rather what YOU say it means. Funny--about the only time I've seen this argument used is concerning baptism.
Quote:
A. Mark 16:16
Baptismal salvationists object, " Does not the Bible say, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved?" (Mark 16:16). Yes, the bible does teach that all who truly believe and are baptized shall be saved. This does not say, " If one believes and is baptized he shall be saved." If it had been the latter, then baptism would have been a necessary condition with which one would have to comply with to be saved. However is a mere declaration that the baptized believer shall be saved. Numerous other verses declare that one is saved at the point of belief in Christ before and without baptism. What one receives when he believes, he does not lose when he is baptized. ( John 3:16, 18; 5:24; Acts 16:31; Rom. 1:16). The latter part of Mark 16:16 declares, "He that believeth not shall be damned." If baptism had been a condition with which one had to comply in order to be saved, surely the Lord would have also placed it in the negative as He did all other things necessary to salvation. Here are four examples
Your "examples" are not true comparisons at all. You focus on what the Bible does NOT say, rather than what it does say. Believe AND be baptized--these two are undeniably connected, and if one is applicable the other has to be. Let's use some common sense and logic here. Suppose someone says "Climb that ladder and get the $100 bill that it attached to the top, and I will give it to you. If you don't climb the ladder, I won't give you the $100." Now, using common sense and logic, we don't have to be told "If you don't climb the ladder and if you don't get the $100 attached to the top, I won't give it to you." That is because the two requirements are connected--the second is based upon the completion of the first. If you don't first climb the ladder, you can't retrieve the money, just likeif one doesn't first beleive, there can be no scriptural baptism.
Quote:
John 3:5
Baptismal regenerationsits ask, "Does not the Bible say, "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"? ( Hohn 3:5. Yes, but what does it mean to be born of water and the Spirit? Whatever it means it has no reference to baptism. Baptism is a burial, not a birth. The meaning in this verse seems to be that Jesus distinctly emphasized to Nicodemus that even though he had been born of the flesh and could not do that again, it was possible and necessary for him to be born of the Sjpirit. He had already been born of the flesh ( the natural birth, called water birth) , but he had not been born of the Spirit. Jesus did not say, "Except you are born again of water and the Spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of God." He said, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see........or enter.....the kingdom of God" (John 3:3,5)
Whatever it means? Are you saying you don't know what it means, but it can't mean what it says because you don't believe it? What kind of argument is that?
Nicodemus was a mature man, and a leader of the Jews. Do you think he was not smart enough to realize that in order to be saved, one first had to be born??? Do you think that what Christ actually meant to say was "Nocodemus, first you have to be born of a woman, then born of the Spirit, to be saved." Again, this fails the test of common sense and logic. Nicodemus was not an idiot, and Christ said just what He meant. You say baptism is a burial, but not a rebirth. That is contrary to what the Bible teaches. When one is baptised, they do not go under and stay under--that would be a burial, period. The Bible teaches that it is symbolic of Christ's burial and resurrection. Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Quote:
Acts 2:38
Does the bible say "Repent, and be baptized...for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38)? Yes it does. It was on the day ofPentacost after Peter had preached a sin indicting sermon to the crowd. The Jews who had heardsaid "Men andbrethren, what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37). Peter then replied, telling them not only what to do to get right with God but also what they shoulddo to right their lives before men. The command of his message for men to repent was made to all unsaved men; then the admonition to be baptized was made singularly to each who had genuinely repented.
Once again, you insert your opinions as if they carry as much or more weight than the Gospel. Repent AND be baptized FOR the remission of sins. Just as beleif and baptism are undeniably unseparable, so are repentance and baptism. Also, repentance must come first, else one cannot be scripturally baptised.
" Does the Bible teach that men should be baptized unto Christ and put on Christ"? Yes (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3-5; Acts 22:16). What does it mean to be baptized into Christ, to put on Christ,, or to be baptized to wash away sins? No unsaved person was ever commanded to be baptized into Christ, to put on Christ, or to have his sins washed away by or through baptism. The persons who are addressed or about whom all the above statements are made are people who had already been saved. For instance , those who were said to have been baptized into Christ and put on Christ (Gal. 3:27 ) were only those who had first become "children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26). The "you" who had "put on Christ" who had first become children of God by faith, "not by baptism" in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:26).
Once again, your words contradict the scriptures. Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Quote:
I am most doubtfull this will have much effect on our modern day Pharisees and Sadducees who with their clean hands, pots and pans, ceremonial, sacramental, ritualistic, self-righteousness point the finger at us believers who refuse to accept heresies such as baptismal regeneration.
Now that sure adds a lot of weight to your argument. Gosh, those awful people are sticking to what the Gospel says and saying that the doctrines and dogmas and traditions of man are worthless, and the God's Word is binding. What a sacriledge!
You see, taking ALL of the scriptures for what they say, not what some man claims they say, is undeniableproof that obedience to God's word, including baptism, is essential.I didn't even have tomake disparraging remarks, call you any names, or give any interpretations along the lines of"This is what the Bible says, but it actually means just the opposite"to show that with scripture.
There's still lots of questions and lots of scriptures posted that you didn't touch on. How about I challenge you to answer them without adding your own opinions, doctrines, definitions, interpretations, etc.--in other words, use the Bible alone to answer.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
A few more things to consider in John 3:5. As already pointed out, the argument that Christ was talking about a literal birth when referring to being born of water doesn't make any logical or common sense, but let's take it a step further.
In verse 3, Christ said to Nicodemus "Verily, verily, I say unto thee......" Christ was telling NICODEMUS--the old man--what HE had to do to be saved. What sense would it make to tell Nicodemus that he had to first be literally born before he could be saved? Also in verse 3 "...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." and repeated in verse 5 "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Who must be born again, and must be born of water and of the Spirit? A MAN!! How can a man enter again into his mother's womb? That's what Nicodemus was wondering also--it's impossible. Are men born, or are babies born?
Read the scriptures without doctrinal bias, and they will make plenty of sense, and won't require any changing around. The only time you will have to make any changes is when you choose to "make" the Bible fit your beliefs, rather than make your beliefs fit the Bible.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Let me ask , what happens if someone in war is shot and is dying and he accepts God's salvation at that moment ,he dies without being Baptised ,is He saved ?
Happens more often than you think.
[/blockquote]
what do you think happens Alex ?
It's the same argument as has been brought up before. The main difference is you took the time to add some colorful name-calling to the mix. According to you, the Bible doesn't really mean what it says, but rather what YOU say it means. Funny--about the only time I've seen this argument used is concerning baptism.
Quote:
A. Mark 16:16
Baptismal salvationists object, " Does not the Bible say, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved?" (Mark 16:16). Yes, the bible does teach that all who truly believe and are baptized shall be saved. This does not say, " If one believes and is baptized he shall be saved." If it had been the latter, then baptism would have been a necessary condition with which one would have to comply with to be saved. However is a mere declaration that the baptized believer shall be saved. Numerous other verses declare that one is saved at the point of belief in Christ before and without baptism. What one receives when he believes, he does not lose when he is baptized. ( John 3:16, 18; 5:24; Acts 16:31; Rom. 1:16). The latter part of Mark 16:16 declares, "He that believeth not shall be damned." If baptism had been a condition with which one had to comply in order to be saved, surely the Lord would have also placed it in the negative as He did all other things necessary to salvation. Here are four examples
Your "examples" are not true comparisons at all. You focus on what the Bible does NOT say, rather than what it does say. Believe AND be baptized--these two are undeniably connected, and if one is applicable the other has to be. Let's use some common sense and logic here. Suppose someone says "Climb that ladder and get the $100 bill that it attached to the top, and I will give it to you. If you don't climb the ladder, I won't give you the $100." Now, using common sense and logic, we don't have to be told "If you don't climb the ladder and if you don't get the $100 attached to the top, I won't give it to you." That is because the two requirements are connected--the second is based upon the completion of the first. If you don't first climb the ladder, you can't retrieve the money, just likeif one doesn't first beleive, there can be no scriptural baptism.
Quote:
John 3:5
Baptismal regenerationsits ask, "Does not the Bible say, "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"? ( Hohn 3:5. Yes, but what does it mean to be born of water and the Spirit? Whatever it means it has no reference to baptism. Baptism is a burial, not a birth. The meaning in this verse seems to be that Jesus distinctly emphasized to Nicodemus that even though he had been born of the flesh and could not do that again, it was possible and necessary for him to be born of the Sjpirit. He had already been born of the flesh ( the natural birth, called water birth) , but he had not been born of the Spirit. Jesus did not say, "Except you are born again of water and the Spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of God." He said, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see........or enter.....the kingdom of God" (John 3:3,5)
Whatever it means? Are you saying you don't know what it means, but it can't mean what it says because you don't believe it? What kind of argument is that?
Nicodemus was a mature man, and a leader of the Jews. Do you think he was not smart enough to realize that in order to be saved, one first had to be born??? Do you think that what Christ actually meant to say was "Nocodemus, first you have to be born of a woman, then born of the Spirit, to be saved." Again, this fails the test of common sense and logic. Nicodemus was not an idiot, and Christ said just what He meant. You say baptism is a burial, but not a rebirth. That is contrary to what the Bible teaches. When one is baptised, they do not go under and stay under--that would be a burial, period. The Bible teaches that it is symbolic of Christ's burial and resurrection. Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Quote:
Acts 2:38
Does the bible say "Repent, and be baptized...for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38)? Yes it does. It was on the day ofPentacost after Peter had preached a sin indicting sermon to the crowd. The Jews who had heardsaid "Men andbrethren, what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37). Peter then replied, telling them not only what to do to get right with God but also what they shoulddo to right their lives before men. The command of his message for men to repent was made to all unsaved men; then the admonition to be baptized was made singularly to each who had genuinely repented.
Once again, you insert your opinions as if they carry as much or more weight than the Gospel. Repent AND be baptized FOR the remission of sins. Just as beleif and baptism are undeniably unseparable, so are repentance and baptism. Also, repentance must come first, else one cannot be scripturally baptised.
" Does the Bible teach that men should be baptized unto Christ and put on Christ"? Yes (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3-5; Acts 22:16). What does it mean to be baptized into Christ, to put on Christ,, or to be baptized to wash away sins? No unsaved person was ever commanded to be baptized into Christ, to put on Christ, or to have his sins washed away by or through baptism. The persons who are addressed or about whom all the above statements are made are people who had already been saved. For instance , those who were said to have been baptized into Christ and put on Christ (Gal. 3:27 ) were only those who had first become "children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26). The "you" who had "put on Christ" who had first become children of God by faith, "not by baptism" in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:26).
Once again, your words contradict the scriptures. Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Quote:
I am most doubtfull this will have much effect on our modern day Pharisees and Sadducees who with their clean hands, pots and pans, ceremonial, sacramental, ritualistic, self-righteousness point the finger at us believers who refuse to accept heresies such as baptismal regeneration.
Now that sure adds a lot of weight to your argument. Gosh, those awful people are sticking to what the Gospel says and saying that the doctrines and dogmas and traditions of man are worthless, and the God's Word is binding. What a sacriledge!
You see, taking ALL of the scriptures for what they say, not what some man claims they say, is undeniableproof that obedience to God's word, including baptism, is essential.I didn't even have tomake disparraging remarks, call you any names, or give any interpretations along the lines of"This is what the Bible says, but it actually means just the opposite"to show that with scripture.
There's still lots of questions and lots of scriptures posted that you didn't touch on. How about I challenge you to answer them without adding your own opinions, doctrines, definitions, interpretations, etc.--in other words, use the Bible alone to answer.
Chad
Hey LBR, Great job of making that easy to understand, you can really tell a difference in those thatpost what they want the bible to say and those that understand what the bible does say.
1 Peter 3:21
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us"”baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,(emph. added by Me)
Let me ask , what happens if someone in war is shot and is dying and he accepts God's salvation at that moment ,he dies without being Baptised ,is He saved ?
Alex, what are your thoughts on that same person if he doesn't have a chance to hear and/or confess either?
As far as I know, God hasn't given us any exceptions to His requirements, and according to the Bible, God is no respecter of persons.
I'm don't know all of the answers, and I'm not going to focus on what "might" happen any more than I'll focus on what the Bible does NOT say. Study and obey what we have, and we won't have to worry about it.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Let me ask , what happens if someone in war is shot and is dying and he accepts God's salvation at that moment ,he dies without being Baptised ,is He saved ?
Objections Answered
