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Old 04-09-2006, 07:25 PM   #1
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Default Can any man forbid water

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

As long as we are making multiple posts on the subject of baptism I thought I would as well. Now just by reading this uncomplicated verse we see Peter is obviously referingto saved persons, after all they have received the Holy Ghost. Is this not true? But wait how can that be seeing how they are not baptized yet! (at this point a light bulb should be going off) So it seems apparent that baptism is for SAVED people seeing how that is the criterium that Peter cites as making them worthy candidates for baptism. Is it possible for a lost person to have the Holy Ghost? So If the prerequisite for baptism is having the Holy Ghost/Being saved, how can baptism save you (your already saved or you would not have been scripturaly baptized!)..............dabow
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Old 04-09-2006, 07:35 PM   #2
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

Quote:
ORIGINAL: dabowhunter

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

As long as we are making multiple posts on the subject of baptism I thought I would as well. Now just by reading this uncomplicated verse we see Peter is obviously referingto saved persons, after all they have received the Holy Ghost. Is this not true? But wait how can that be seeing how they are not baptized yet! (at this point a light bulb should be going off) So it seems apparent that baptism is for SAVED people seeing how that is the criterium that Peter cites as making them worthy candidates for baptism. Is it possible for a lost person to have the Holy Ghost? So If the prerequisite for baptism is having the Holy Ghost/Being saved, how can baptism save you (your already saved or you would not have been scripturaly baptized!)..............dabow


Great Post, and I agree with you 100 %. that's the way I've always understood that subject.
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Old 04-09-2006, 07:57 PM   #3
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

Me too. I think your my new mentor.
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Old 04-09-2006, 08:19 PM   #4
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

1 Cor 15:1-2 saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you

1 John 2:4-5 He that saith, I know him and keepeth not his commandments, is a lair and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5:2-3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.

John 8:51 If a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death.

Acts 10:33 to hear all things that are commanded the of God.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Can one truthfully say that he knows God, has the truth, has the love of God, has eternal life, shall never see death, if he does not keep the commandments of God? Baptism was commanded in Acts chapter 10. Are commandments optional?
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Old 04-09-2006, 08:49 PM   #5
 
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

was commanded in Acts chapter 10. Are commandments optional?
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they were baptized after they were saved Snooky..when do you believe one receives the Holy Ghost? i believe that all commandments are to be obeyed and I haven't yet read where anyone says you shouldn't be baptised..
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Old 04-09-2006, 08:59 PM   #6
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Snooky

1 Cor 15:1-2 saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you

1 John 2:4-5 He that saith, I know him and keepeth not his commandments, is a lair and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5:2-3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.

John 8:51 If a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death.

Acts 10:33 to hear all things that are commanded the of God.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Can one truthfully say that he knows God, has the truth, has the love of God, has eternal life, shall never see death, if he does not keep the commandments of God? Baptism was commanded in Acts chapter 10. Are commandments optional?
Yep your right, Acts 10:48 Peter commanded them to be baptized........right AFTER they were saved. VS. 44 .........the Holy Ghost fell on all which heard the word. Once again we see the lost sinner come to salvation thru hearing the word, repenting and receiving the Holy Ghost.
Than BELIEVERS BAPTISM.

In 1 Cor. chapter 1 We hear from Paul who spent a year and a half in Corinth. Yet only baptized Crispus, Gaius and the household of Stephanas.
In vs. 17 he writes...For Christ sent me NOT TO BAPTIZE , but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words lest the CROSS SHOULD BE MADE OF NO EFFECT.
So in a year and a half Paul only Baptizes a handfull of believers? If baptism is a sacrament necessary for salvation why did Paul put the empahssis on the Cross and deemphasize baptism?
Why has it always been so important for mortal man to try and play a role inhis salvation by choosing works, and take away from the glory that is the LORDs. Jesus saves
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:40 PM   #7
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

Taking this account in context, we see that it was a special situation, with a special purpose--to show that the Gentile could find favor in God's eyes as well as the Jew--verse 45. In verse 46, they spoke with tongues--dabowhunter, do you speak in tongues? In verse 48 Peter commanded them to be baptized--he didn't recommend it.

How can we know that this is a special situation? Because the Bible does not contradict itself, and numerous other accounts state that baptism, just like hearing, believing, repenting, and confessing come before salvation. It is obvious that when the Holy Ghost fell on these people, it was something that they could see, because the Jews in the audience were astonished when it happened (verse 45).

Have you actually seen the Holy Ghost fall on anyone, either before or after they were baptized?

This was a sign from God, not a command. Baptism is a command, period. It has to be water baptism that is commanded, becauseman cannot baptize with the Holy Spirit--so why would we be commanded to perform an impossible act?

Finally, the Bible does not say these men were saved, then baptized. That part must be added by man. The Bible says they believed, and the Holy Spirit came down upon them, and they were commanded to be baptized.

Once again, in order to believe that salvation comes before baptism you must disregard, ignore, or changethe following verses.

Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Romans 6:3-5 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection." And it continues on through verse 11.

I Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, bu tthe answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Colossians 3:12,13 "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kindom of God."

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Not my words, not my opinion, just the plain and simple words of the Bible--words you have to throw out in order to cling to the false doctrine of man that states baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

Quote:
In 1 Cor. chapter 1 We hear from Paul who spent a year and a half in Corinth. Yet only baptized Crispus, Gaius and the household of Stephanas.
In vs. 17 he writes...For Christ sent me NOT TO BAPTIZE , but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words lest the CROSS SHOULD BE MADE OF NO EFFECT.
So in a year and a half Paul only Baptizes a handfull of believers? If baptism is a sacrament necessary for salvation why did Paul put the empahssis on the Cross and deemphasize baptism?
By taking only select verses from I Corinthians chapter one, you can make your argument. However, if you take ALL of it, that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Paul explains his position, which is not at all de-emphasizing baptism, in verses 11-15.

"For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thnk God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name."

Taking this passage in context, it's obvious to see the true message Paul is giving here. There were those that were putting more emphasis on who performed the act, rather than the act of baptism itself. Most anyone can take scripture out of context and "make" it way whatever they choose--a common method of deception. Unfortunately, it works very often, because so many people will listen to the words of man rather than believe the Bible.

Quote:
Why has it always been so important for mortal man to try and play a role inhis salvation by choosing works, and take away from the glory that is the LORDs.
For my part, that is a blatently false implication--yet another means of decieving those that will listen to men instead of God. Will you say that hearing, believing, repenting, and confessing are also works? Why or why not? Are these also optional or not required for salvation, or things that come after salvation?

Why does mortal man so often defame and disgrace the Word of God by ignoring His commands and trying to change His Word to fit their own preferances? How can a command from God, even one so simple as baptism, be so easily brushed aside?

Chad
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:53 PM   #8
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

Why has it always been so important for mortal man to try and play a role inhis salvation by choosing works, and take away from the glory that is the LORDs. Jesus saves

Is being willing and obedient to the COMMAND given, playing a role in one's salvation? If so, should we be disobedient so as to not interfear with God's grace?
Tell me which quote is the correct quote for Mark 16:16. (KJV)
Does it say, " he that believeth and is saved, shall be baptized"? OR does it say, " He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"? Was Jesus confused here? Who knows the truth of the matter better than Jesus? Wasn't Jesus the way, the truth, and the life? While you fellows are getting him straightened out, I think Iwill just except what is written as the gospel and hope for the best.
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:53 PM   #9
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Default RE: Can any man forbid water

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I haven't yet read where anyone says you shouldn't be baptised..


Agreed bro.Wayne! If there is any scriptures in the bible that mentions this, I sure would like to see it!
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Old 04-09-2006, 11:24 PM   #10
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they were baptized after they were saved Snooky

Bro motor, where does the scripture say that they were saved?
This is what my bible says about Cornelius and his house, Acts 11:14 Who shall tell the words, whereby thou and all thy house SHALL be saved V:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word. V:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Isn't it rather silly to say, "whereby thou and all thy house SHALL be saved" when they were already saved? IMO we would be wise to quit pointing out all the errors in the bible, God may be gettingtired of being embarassed in public. First he got it all backwards in Mark 16:16,(and you guys pointed it out to everyone)and now he makes the same mistake again here in Acts 10 and Acts 11, (you guys pointed it out again). Again in Acts 2:41 he makes the same mistake and implys that they were added to the church, after being baptized. But you know what? I'm going to stick with God in spite of it all!!
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