[align=center]Come Out from Among Them[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]"God is in the hypocrite's mouth, but the world is in his heart."[/align][align=center][/align]Maturity in grace makes us willing to part with worldly goods. The green apple needs a sharp twist to separate it from the bough, but the ripe fruit parts readily from the wood. Maturity in grace makes it easier to part with life itself. The unripe pear is scarcely beaten down with much labor, while its mellow companion drops readily into the hand with the slightest shake. Rest assured that love for the things of this life and cleaving to this present state are sure indications of immaturity in the divine life.--C.H.Spurgeon[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]2 Cor 6:14-18 (KJV) [/align][align=center]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: [/align][align=center]for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? [/align][align=center]and what communion hath light with darkness?[/align][align=center]{15} And what concord{Grk-=harmony} hath Christ with Belial{ie=Satan}?[/align][align=center]or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[/align][align=center]{16} And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?[/align][align=center]for ye are the temple of the living God; [/align][align=center]as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; [/align][align=center]and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]{17} Wherefore come out from among them,[/align][align=center]and be ye separate, saith the Lord, [/align][align=center]and touch not the unclean thing; [/align][align=center]and I will receive you,[/align][align=center]{18} And will be a Father unto you, [/align][align=center]and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]{2 Cor 7:1}Having therefore these promises,dearly beloved,[/align][align=center]let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit,[/align][align=center]perfecting holiness in the fear of God.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Num 16:25-26 (KJV)[/align][align=center]And Moses rose up and went unto Dathan and Abiram; [/align][align=center]and the elders of Israel followed him.[/align][align=center]{26} And he spake unto the congregation, saying, [/align][align=center]Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, [/align][align=center]and touch nothing of theirs,[/align][align=center]lest ye be consumed in all their sins.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Ezra 6:21-22 (KJV)[/align][align=center]And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, [/align][align=center]and all such as had separated themselves unto them [/align][align=center]from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, [/align][align=center]to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,[/align][align=center]{22} And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: [/align][align=center]for the LORD had made them joyful, [/align][align=center]and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them,[/align][align=center]to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, [/align][align=center]the God of Israel.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Psa 1:1-3 (KJV)[/align][align=center]Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, [/align][align=center]nor standeth in the way of sinners, [/align][align=center]nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.[/align][align=center]{2} But his delight is in the law of the LORD; [/align][align=center]and in his law doth he meditate day and night.[/align][align=center]{3} And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, [/align][align=center]that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; [/align][align=center]his leaf also shall not wither; [/align][align=center]and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Isa 52:9-11 (KJV) [/align][align=center]Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: [/align][align=center]for the LORD hath comforted his people, [/align][align=center]he hath redeemed Jerusalem.[/align][align=center]{10} The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; [/align][align=center]and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.[/align][align=center]{11} Depart ye, depart ye,[/align][align=center]go ye out from thence, [/align][align=center]touch no unclean thing; [/align][align=center]go ye out of the midst of her; [/align][align=center]be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Acts 2:38-40 (KJV) [/align][align=center]Then Peter said unto them, [/align][align=center]Repent, and be baptized every one of you[/align][align=center]in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, [/align][align=center]and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.[/align][align=center]{39} For the promise is unto you, and to your children, [/align][align=center]and to all that are afar off, [/align][align=center]even as many as the Lord our God shall call.[/align][align=center]{40} And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, [/align][align=center]Save yourselves from this untoward{Grk=perverse} generation.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Rev 18:1-5 (KJV) [/align][align=center]And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven,[/align][align=center]having great power; [/align][align=center]and the earth was lightened with his glory.[/align][align=center]{2} And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,[/align][align=center]Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, [/align][align=center]and the hold of every foul spirit, [/align][align=center]and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.[/align][align=center]{3} For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, [/align][align=center]and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,[/align][align=center]and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich [/align][align=center]through the abundance of her delicacies.[/align][align=center]{4} And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,[/align][align=center]Come out of her, my people,[/align][align=center]that ye be not partakers of her sins, [/align][align=center]and that ye receive not of her plagues.[/align][align=center]{5} For her sins have reached unto heaven, [/align][align=center]and God hath remembered her iniquities.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Rom 12:1-2 (KJV)[/align][align=center]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,[/align][align=center]that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, [/align][align=center]holy, acceptable unto God,[/align][align=center]which is your reasonable service.[/align][align=center]{2} And be not conformed to this world: [/align][align=center]but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, [/align][align=center]that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable,[/align][align=center]and perfect, will of God.[/align]
__________________
"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
[align=center]Rev 18:1-5 (KJV) [/align][align=center]And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven,[/align][align=center]having great power; [/align][align=center]and the earth was lightened with his glory.[/align][align=center]{2} And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,[/align][align=center]Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, [/align][align=center]and the hold of every foul spirit, [/align][align=center]and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.[/align][align=center]{3} For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, [/align][align=center]and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,[/align][align=center]and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich [/align][align=center]through the abundance of her delicacies.[/align][align=center]{4} And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,[/align][align=center]Come out of her, my people,[/align][align=center]that ye be not partakers of her sins, [/align][align=center]and that ye receive not of her plagues.[/align][align=center]{5} For her sins have reached unto heaven, [/align][align=center]and God hath remembered her iniquities.[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]oh ifyou could under stand who she is.[/align][align=center]she has backed more wars that i care to count.[/align][align=center]she has caused more confusion andmisunderstanding as to the truth of god and his kingdom than all of you are willing to admit.[/align][align=center]and she is going down.[/align][align=center]please! don't let her take you with her. [/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align]
Oh and this last part from the cat who readily quotes the Book Of Revelation whenever he thinks it will further his own agenda but then takes the rest of us to task whenever we use a quote from the same book..
Heres his own quote..
{i want you to please remember that your reading from the book of rev. very little of it
can or should be taken literal.EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM ! ! ! }
You have a fondness for posting word definitions from, I assume an accepted dictionary...
Do us all a favor and look up the definition of hypocrisy... I'd do it for you but maybe this time you will read the definition and perhaps it will make an impression on you...
{Another Quote from you}
{referees to the sense of discernment not with your eyes but with your under standing of whats going on.
so the expression every eye will see him means that all who are aware will recognize
that the Christ is present. Ephesians 1:18 KJV The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, }
Another strange and simply wrong interpretation and, I believe, a corruption of scripture from you...
This is your own personal interpretation of scripture and carries absolutely no weight with any true believer.
We accept the Bible for what it is, The Inspired Word Of God..
You, on the other hand, like the rest of your "Followers' pick and choose and insert, delete, and ingnore what does not fall in line with your own corruption..
I thought I'd seen the last of you when we allowed that last thread to die a troubled death, but you can't seem to stop your self from inserting your dumb and clumsy analogies into any place you feel.
So, guess what, I'm back and because you feel that you have carte blanche to insert your self and your foolishness anywhere you choose, I intend to keep a close eye on you..
Why would i waste my time doing that. you ask troubledly??
Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you...
There could be people here , perhaps troubled with their walk with Christ for some reason, or there could be young people here that aren't sure which way to turn or go. And, by God, I'm not going to sit here and watch you try to corrupt any one here...
I've come to care for this place and the people in it..
And, we are instructed by Christ to fight corruption and anyone who would distort the Holy Word Of God wherever we find them..
So--I put you on notice, and if my actions and or reactions to the drivel you post could somehow cause me to be banned from here.. Well, that's a chanceI I have to take.
Because if I can sway just one person away from anything you have to say, then anything I have to go through will be worth it.
Long ago in two other forums, I and a few other Christians were instrumental in setting the record straight when several athesists made an all out attempr to sway some of the younger people to "Come" over to their beliefs.
I took it upon myself to srand against the incredible arrogance of a couple of these gentlemen and after about a year and a half I got an admission from this college educated, avowed athesist, and former school teacher, that he thought there was a possibility that man could have a soul...
You could almost hear the collective holding of breath and gasps of astonishment.
And, there were at least 7 or 8 young people who came to the Lord through our efforts..
Things got heated at times, but the Mods, only one of whom was a Christian, gave us great leeway because they were fair minded and intelligent people, and of course, it stirred up an incredible amount of interest in the forum..
This was instrumental in my writing my Trilogy about the Man With No Brain, and after all this, he and i became friends, albeit wary ones...
Cataway: I consider you like a cancer, an insidious creature, and your only intention is to further your corruption of the Scriptures.. and I for one will not tolerate it.
You have no liking or respect for any of us here. And your only purpose is to cause unrest and trouble.
You can't be argued with or reasoned with becuase you do no possess the abilities to interact in an intelligent responsible manner.
Every time you post , you attack the very core beliefs of Chrisrians. You insult our collective intelligence, you insult and degrade our Bible and the word of our God and our Saviour.
You ridicule our beliefs in a particular Book, I. E. Revelation.. deride us for believing that the Bible is a literal treasnlation of Gods word and in the next thread- you quote scripture from the very Book, {Revelation} that you tell us we are wrong for doing..
What is different in this instance, compared to any other non believer that I faced. Because make no mistake about it, Cataway, that is exactly what you are, a non believer Is that in the past my/our adversaries, at least had a working knowledge of the English Language and could at least stand on their own when they made their own arguments.
All you are capable of is posting definitions from Webster and pasting snippets of Scripture that, for some unknown reason, you are sure will make us stand up and say, By God, that Cataway is right, what a fool I've been all these years..Why lets put up a statue in his name and worship him, because without him we would surely be on our own fast track to Hell..
{Sigh} Some will read this and say to themselves, Geez , Leep, take a pill, relax. and I suppose I could understand that, to some degree.
Some others will sit back , nodding their heads and say, By the Lord Harry, Leep has it right and someone needed to put a stop to this...Others will sit back, chuckle and watch..
My fear is that somehow I will offend someone here and that would hurt me deeply, because i do not want to do that.
As for Cataway..Ithis is a desision I have made after prayer.. and I believe ofe of the reasons I am still here, in spite of all that has happened to me in my life, I should have been dead three or four times, is that God or Christ has a purpose for me. And I believe that I owe my Lord much for my life , both here and after this one, and I WILL not sit idly by while what we believe in and what we trust in is being attacked and ridiculed by what I consider an agent of the evil one. For if you do not do Gods work, then you do that of the Devil.
And what this man and those like him do is certainly not Gods work. Their only reason for existence is to corrupt what we believe, turn away from the Book of Life and follow their own failed principles..
Ok, enough..for now..
But heed these words Cat, you are on notice.. Go somewhere else and spread your kitty litter..we all have anough crap in our lives without rolling in yours...
Jehovah's Witnesses And The Soul Of Man Jehovah's Witnesses deny that man has a soul or spirit that has conscious existence after death. What does the Bible say? To Jehovah's Witnesses, the word "soul" is interchangeable with the word "human." In other words, they don't believe that humans possess souls which are separate and distinct from the body; rather, they maintain that humans are souls! This explains why Jehovah's Witnesses believe that a person ceases to exist upon death. The Bible, however, makes it clear that everyone has an inner being which survives after physical death. Admittedly, this being is not conscious in the sense that he's not fully aware of the physical world; yet he remains a person who possesses both self-awareness and a unique identity. The Bible refers to this inner being as the soul or the spirit of mankind. Matthew 10:28 demonstrates that Scripture distinguishes the soul from the body, thereby disproving what Jehovah's Witnesses are clearly teaching. It reads: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul" (NIV). Jesus tells us in this passage that the soul survives death, even though someone may kill the body. Furthermore, Matthew 17 - which recounts not only the transfiguration of Christ, but also His conversation with Moses and Elijah - shows that the soul is indeed conscious after death. After all, how else can Jesus carry on a dialogue with Moses, who passed away centuries earlier? John 11:26 states that whoever believes in Jesus will never die, which explains Paul's statement in Romans 8:38 that not even death can separate us from God's love. Conversely, Revelation 20 tells us that the unsaved will experience eternal torment. By denying the reality of eternal punishment, Jehovah's Witnesses are saying that this passage can't be taken seriously. Well, the truth of the matter is that Jesus not only taught us of heaven, but also taught us that hell is a tangible reality
[/blockquote]
IN EVERYDAY life you have no doubt heard the expression, "˜There wasn"™t a soul in the room."™ You have no trouble in understanding that the speaker means that there was not a human, a person, in the room. You never think that some invisible, disembodied spirit is meant.
Likewise, when the Bible uses the word "soul," it always uses it with reference to a person, or an animal, something that lives, moves and has a measure of intelligence. The word, when used with regard to humans, is associated with the desires, emotions and experiences of the fleshly human. The Bible says that the soul "needs to eat," it "sins," can "pine away," can "˜struggle for breath."™ (Ex. 12:16; Lev. 4:2; 26:16; Jer. 15:9) "The soul that is sinning"”it itself will die," Ezekiel 18:4, 20 tells us. The human soul is not immortal. But not only are souls that sin able to die. Jesus Christ, who had no sin, "poured out his soul to the very death" as a ransom, so that sinners, even the dead, might be restored to life."”Isa. 53:12.
Accordingly, "soul," in Biblical usage, as applied to humans, means "life as a human," or more specifically, "the intelligent creature who is a human." It involves the whole person, including his body in every part, and his personality, with all its traits and tendencies. Do you find this unusual?
Note, then, what the NewCatholicEncyclopedia (Vol. 13) says under the heading "Soul (in the Bible)": "Nepes [or, nephesh, the Hebrew word for "˜soul"™] is used in regard to both animals and humans. If life is human, nepes is equivalent to the person, the "˜I."™ After death, the nepes goes to Sheol.
"The above summary indicates that there is no dichotomy [division into two parts]"™ of body and soul in the OT [Old Testament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepes, though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person."
Consequently, we cannot separate the body from the personality, as though the personality were something spiritual or immaterial inside the person, and could exist apart from the body. Biological research has shown that a great portion of our personality is due to inheritance from our father and mother and, through them, from our earlier ancestors. In every one of the billions of cells in an individual"™s body there are exactly the same chromosomes and genes, the hereditary-carrying factors that make him what he is when he is born. At birth he already has certain leanings and characteristics in his makeup. These will be developed and will become manifest as he grows to adulthood. Even bodily structure, tallness or shortness, heavy or light build, and so forth, influence his personality. Disabilities affect one"™s traits.
The soul, then, is indeed the entire person, every fiber of his being, along with his characteristics"”his entire personality. And the body is such a close-knit structure that we cannot truly say that one part or organ can be affected without affecting all other parts. The apostle Paul used this unity of the human body for illustration. He wrote: "The eye cannot say to the hand: "˜I have no need of you"™; or, again, the head cannot say to the feet: "˜I have no need of you."™ But much rather is it the case that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary, and the parts of the body which we think to be less honorable, these we surround with more abundant honor.... Nevertheless, God compounded the body, giving honor more abundant to the part which had a lack, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its members should have the same care for one another.""”1Cor. 12:21-25.
In the light of this understanding of what a soul is, we can discern what Jesus meant when he said: "Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." (Matt. 10:28) Men can kill the body and put the person out of existence only for a time. They cannot take away the "˜title deed"™ to life as a person. The faithful person is viewed by God as alive, and is sure to be a living soul again at God"™s own time. In refuting the Sadducees, who claimed that there was no resurrection, Jesus said: "He [Jehovah] is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.""”Luke 20:38.
When a person is resurrected, it is therefore the entire being, or soul, that is restored. This does not mean that the identical body made up of the same atoms is brought back. The apostle Paul explains: "God gives it [that which is "˜sown"™ in death] a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. ... If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one." (1Cor. 15:38-44) Those resurrected to heaven would receive a spiritual body, and those brought back to life on earth, a physical body. In resurrecting a human from the dead to life on earth, God can easily reconstruct, with different atoms, the body cells with the same genetic structure and arrangement. He can, in effect, imprint in that body the additional characteristics that the person had acquired during his lifetime. This is as simple for God as for man to register and reproduce picture and sound electronically by means of videotape.
On the other hand, if God destroys the individual in "Gehenna," which is symbolic of everlasting death, not only is the person put out of existence at the time, but he is actually dead forever, because God has destroyed his "soul," his "˜title deed"™ to life."”Matt. 20:28.
Therefore, it behooves the individual who wants life to use his own soul, his entire being and faculties, in serving God. Jesus said about this: "He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life." (John 12:25) Our concern should be, not merely for the present physical things, but for obedience to God, who can give our souls life everlasting.
"Jehovah's Witnesses"
Are Not
Jehovah's Witnesses
(October 2002)
[align=left] [All Biblical quotations in this report are taken from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, copyright 1984. Although we do not believe the NWT is a good translation, we thought it best to show that the "Jehovah's Witnesses" own Bible does not support their own doctrine. Also, all info on this report has been hard copied for our records.]
The religious organization that bears the name of "Jehovah's Witnesses" with their "Kingdom Halls" and "Watchtower" claims, as of August 2001, to have over 6 million practicing members worldwide with 93,154 "congregations" (www.jw-media.org/people/statistics.htm). According to the King James Bible, God's name is indeed Jehovah (e.g. Psalm 83:18), but these people are not His witnesses; yet they claim to be. On their web site, speaking of themselves, they write,
[blockquote] Jehovah's Witnesses? Yes, that is the way they refer to themselves. It is a descriptive name, indicating that they bear witness concerning Jehovah, his Godship, and his purposes. (www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm)
[/blockquote] This is a lie. "Jehovah's Witnesses" bear false witness concerning Jehovah, His Godship, and His purposes. I. Jehovah Lie #1. "Jehovah's Witnesses" (JW's) claim that Jehovah created Jesus.
In their book entitled Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life (which is also a lie) on page 62 they write,
[blockquote] As we have previously learned in this book, Jesus had a prehuman existence. He is called God's "only-begotten Son" because Jehovah created him directly.
[/blockquote] On the JW's official web site in the article Is God Always Superior to Jesus? they write,
[blockquote] God is always the superior, Jesus the lesser one who was created by God. (www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_06.htm, see also footnote 1 below)
[/blockquote] Although it is true that God the Father is always superior to Jesus (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:28; Hebrews 13:8), it is a lie to say Jesus was created by God. This is a man-made doctrine nowhere taught in all of Holy writ (Proverbs 30:5-6). Jesus was never created (Hebrews 13:8, NWT). He has always been (John 8:58, NWT). This is evident in the words of Hebrews 7:3. Speaking of Melchizedek, it says,
[blockquote] In being fatherless, motherless, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor an end of life, but having been made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually. (NWT)
[/blockquote] Here Melchizedek is likened to the Son of God (Jesus) who has no "beginning of days." As Micah 5:2 says,
[blockquote] And you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite. (NWT)
[/blockquote] "Time indefinite" is eternity past with no beginning (i.e. no creation) since Jesus had no "beginning of days" (Hebrews 7:3, NWT).
Compounding their lie, JW's use the truth of Jesus' first born status as an argument for His supposed creation. On the JW's official web site in the article Who Is Jesus Christ? they write,
[blockquote] Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth. He was God's first creation, and so he is called the "firstborn" Son of God. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14) Jesus is the only Son that God created by himself. Jehovah used the prehuman Jesus as his "master worker" in creating all other things in heaven and on earth. (Proverbs 8:22-31; Colossians 1:16, 17) [www.watchtower.org/library/rq/article_03.htm]
[/blockquote] In their book, Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, on page 39 JW's write,
[blockquote] Jesus was called God's "only-begotten Son" because Jehovah created him directly. (John 3:16) As "the first-born of all creation," Jesus was then used by God to create all other things. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14)
[/blockquote] Nowhere in Scripture is it described as the JW's proclaim (Proverbs 30:5-6). The "first-born of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) is explained further in Colossians as having to do with Him "being first in all things" (Colossians 1:18, NWT). It is never described as Him being created by God at some time. Moreover, JW's claim God created Jesus and then Jesus created "all other things." Scripture does not teach this anywhere (Proverbs 30:5-6). The JW's have added "[other]" to Colossians 1:16-17 which supports this false doctrine, but the "other" isn't there in the original language; and the JW's knew this; that's why it is in brackets. If the JW's addition to the word of God is left out (as it ought to be) the truth becomes very clear. Speaking of Christ it says,
[blockquote] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all things and by means of him all things were made to exist. (Colossians 1:15-17, NWT without the added "[other]")
[/blockquote] Also, this "all other things" idea is contrary to John 1:3. Speaking of Jesus, John 1:3 states,
[blockquote] All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. (NWT)
[/blockquote] If the Father (Jehovah) created Jesus, then Jesus would be "one thing" that came into existence without it being "through him" (i.e. through Jesus). Lie #2. JW's claim that Jesus is not God (i.e. Jehovah).
Obviously akin to the above deceit, JW's deny that Jesus is Jehovah God. In their article, What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus? JW's write,
[blockquote] Even the demons, who "believe there is one God," knew from their experience in the spirit realm that Jesus was not God. (www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_05.htm)
[/blockquote] A little later,
[blockquote] The disciples viewed Jesus as the "one mediator between God and men," not as God himself. (ibid.)
[/blockquote] In the article, Is God Always Superior to Jesus? they state that "Jesus was not God" in more ways than one stating near the end of the article,
[blockquote] The fact is that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be. (www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_06.htm, see also footnote 2 below)
[/blockquote] The JW's own Bible proclaims Jesus to be God in John 1:1.
[blockquote] In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (NWT)
[/blockquote] The Word is Jesus Christ (see John 1:14) and here He is proclaimed to be "a god." What god is He? 1 John 5:20 tells us.
[blockquote] But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting. (NWT)
[/blockquote] Jesus Christ is proclaimed here to be the true God and life everlasting. This makes good Biblical sense since Jesus Himself claimed to be the life in John 11:25 and both the truth and the life in John 14:6 and the Lord God in John 20:28-29 where Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" In response Jesus said,
[blockquote] Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe. (NWT)
[/blockquote] What did Thomas believe? He believed Jesus was his Lord and his God.
Furthermore, Jesus warned the Jews of His day that they would die in their sins (i.e. go to hell) if they did not believe that He was God (by the way, this is true for all, not just the Jews). In John 8:24 Jesus said,
[blockquote] Therefore I said to you, you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins. (NWT)
[/blockquote] Who is the "I am [he]" Jesus is referring to? God. The end of the chapter illustrates this.
[blockquote] Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been." (John 8:58, NWT)
[/blockquote] In John 8:58 Jesus speaks of His eternal existence ("before Abraham came into existence, I have been") which points Him to being Jehovah God, as Psalm 90 says,
[blockquote] O Jehovah, you yourself have proved to be a real dwelling for us during generation after generation. Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God. (Psalm 90:1-2, NWT)
[/blockquote] The Jews understood he was claiming to be God in John 8:58. This is why in the next verse we see them picking up stones to kill him (John 8:59) as they desired to do in John 5:18 when they correctly understood Jesus' claim to be equal with God. When Jesus said, "before Abraham came into existence, I have been" He was declaring Himself to be the "Eternal Father" as Isaiah 9:6 (NWT) declares Him to be.
Furthermore, in the JW's lie about Jesus not being God, they make Jehovah out to be a liar, because Jehovah says,
[blockquote] I - I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior. (Isaiah 43:11, NWT) But I am Jehovah your God from the land of Egypt, and there was no God except me that you used to know; and there was no savior but I. (Hosea 13:4, NWT)
[/blockquote] Indeed, there is no Savior but God, and this is why Jesus, who is God, is called both God and the Savior.
[blockquote] . . . we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Jesus Christ. (Titus 2:13, NWT; note also Titus 1:3, 4; 2:10; 3:4 & 6)
. . . by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:1, NWT, note the JW's added "[the]" to this text)
[/blockquote] Another text JW's tamper with that reveals Christ's deity is Acts 20:28.
[blockquote] Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]. (Acts 20:28, NWT)
[/blockquote] The JW's add the word "[Son]" (Proverbs 30:5-6). Left as God had it written (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21), Acts 20:28 reveals Jesus to be God, because it was God who purchased the church "with the blood of his own." Lie # 3. JW's claim Jehovah does not have a physical body.
In their book, Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, which leads to everlasting destruction, on page 24 they write,
[blockquote] . . . "God is a Spirit"; he does not have a physical body. (John 4:24)
[/blockquote] This is a lie. Abraham fed God's physical body (Genesis 18:1-8, NWT). Jacob wrestled with God's physical body (Genesis 32:24-30, NWT). Daniel saw God's head, hair, and clothing as He sat on a throne (Daniel 7:9, NWT). Micah wrote of God walking barefoot and naked (Micah 1:8, NWT). The Scriptures clearly declare Jehovah does have a physical body. This is, at least in part, why the Bible has so many references to the physical body parts of God (e.g. heart, hands, head, eyes, ears, mouth, feet, nostrils, waist, etc., see our report, The Lord Is A Man). Lie # 4. JW's claim the Holy Spirit is not Jehovah.
In their article entitled, Who Is God? JW's write,
[blockquote] Jehovah lives in heaven, but he can see all things. (Psalm 11:4, 5; John 1:18) What, though, is the holy spirit? It is not a person like God. Rather, it is God's active force. Psalm 104:30. (www.watchtower.org/library/rq/article_02.htm)
[/blockquote] 2 Corinthians 3:17 proves this to be a lie.
[blockquote] Now Jehovah is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:17a, NWT)
[/blockquote] II. His Godship
JW's "Godship" is sunk in the despair of deceit. They reject the true God, who is plural in who He is (e.g. Genesis 3:22; 11:6-8; Matthew 28:19). In their article, What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus? they plainly declare that God is "Not a Plural God" (www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_05.htm).
Yet, the Scriptures reveal that He is a plural God, as Genesis 1:26-27 illustrates.
[blockquote] And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving on the earth." And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him; (NWT)
[/blockquote] In verse 26 God says, "Let us make man in our image," and whose image is man created in? God's image, as verse 27 plainly declares. There is no one else in view, not even the angels are mentioned. It was God's image that man was made in, and this image is plural ("us," "our"). III. His purposes A. In suffering
In their book, Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, JW's lie when they say,
[blockquote] The Bible assures us that the suffering we see around us is not caused by Jehovah God. (p. 71)
[/blockquote] Isaiah 45:6-7 declares,
[blockquote] I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things. (NWT)
[/blockquote] Jehovah says He is the one who is creating the calamity, as Romans 11:36 states,
[blockquote] Because from him and by him and for him are all things. (NWT)
[/blockquote] Romans 1:18 declares, "God's wrath is being revealed"(NWT), and this is why there is so much suffering on the earth. "Jehovah is a Killer" (1 Samuel 2:6, NWT), and He is good at what He does (Nahum 1:7, NWT).
In this same vein, JW's write,
[blockquote] How comforting it is to learn from the Bible that God does not torture anyone! - Jeremiah 7:30,31. (Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, p. 88)
[/blockquote] It's amazing they say this when their own Bible says,
[blockquote] If anyone worships the wild beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of his wrath, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. (Revelation 14:9-10)
[/blockquote] The JW's perverted view of Jehovah on this accord (i.e. He doesn't torture anyone or cause suffering) is so bad they outright reject the Biblical teaching of hell. In The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom February 15, 1997 publication on the back page they write,
[blockquote] Jehovah's Witnesses have long held that hell, as the Bible teaches it, is simply the common grave of dead mankind - not a place of fiery torment.
[/blockquote] Jesus has some radically serious words for "the common grave" "where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out" (Mark 9:43-48, NWT, "gehenna" = hell, e.g. see KJV). This foolish and damning JW lie holds no place for the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) who presently is "existing in torments" (Luke 16:23, NWT). Likewise, the Sodomites know otherwise for they are "undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire" (Jude 7, NWT). B. In Authority
JW's also lie when they reject the rulership of Jehovah. In their article, Who Really Rules the World? they write,
[blockquote] Many people would answer the above question with a single word - God. But significantly, nowhere does the Bible say that either Jesus Christ or his Father are the real rulers of this world. On the contrary, Jesus said: "The ruler of this world will be cast out." And he added: "The ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me." - John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11. (www.watchtower.org/library/t22/who_rules.htm)
[/blockquote] Indeed, Satan is called the ruler of this world (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) and does rule via deception (2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:9), but,
[blockquote] Jehovah himself has firmly established his throne in the very heavens; and over everything his own kingship has held domination. (Psalm 103:19, NWT)
. . . the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind (Daniel 4:17, NWT; see also Daniel 4:25, 32; 5:21). Come, you people, and see the activities of God. His dealing with the sons of men is fear-inspiring. He has changed the sea into dry land; through the river they went crossing over on foot. There we began to rejoice in him. He is ruling by his mightiness to time indefinite. (Psalm 66:5-7a, NWT; see also Psalm 22:28; 59:13)
[/blockquote] Note also that Jesus is "The Ruler of the kings of the earth" (Revelation 1:5, NWT) C. Seeing God
JW's write,
[blockquote] Though it is true that humans will never be able to see the true God, he has kindly had recorded for us in the Bible many details about his personality. (www.watchtower.org/library/g/1999/2/8/article_04.htm)
[/blockquote] Matthew 5:8 says,
[blockquote] Happy are the pure in heart, since they shall see God. (NWT, see also 1 John 3:1-2)
[/blockquote] Conclusion
JW's are not pure in heart. They are liars (1 John 2:4). Not all the lies of JW's are given in this report, but just a few that you might be warned of their deceit (Ephesians 5:11, NKJV). All who follow after this false religion will, despite their unbelief in such a place, spend forever in the lake of fire, because they were "unbelieving" (Revelation 21:8). Footnotes: 1. This same false doctrine can be found in the article What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus? where they write,
[blockquote] What comes through very clearly to an impartial reader is that God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, separate and distinct from anyone else, and that Jesus, even in his prehuman existence, is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God. (www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_05.htm)
[/blockquote] A little later they write,
[blockquote] Thus, Jesus had an existence in heaven before coming to the earth. But was it as one of the persons in an almighty, eternal triune Godhead? No, for the Bible plainly states that in his prehuman existence, Jesus was a created spirit being, just as angels were spirit beings created by God. Neither the angels nor Jesus had existed before their creation. (ibid.)
[/blockquote] And a little later,
[blockquote] Yes, Jesus was created by God as the beginning of God's invisible creations. (ibid.)
[/blockquote] 2. This same error can be found in their article What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus? where they write,
[blockquote] The temptation of Jesus would make sense only if he was, not God, but a separate individual who had his own free will, one who could have been disloyal had he chosen to be, such as an angel or a human. On the other hand, it is unimaginable that God could sin and be disloyal to himself. "Perfect is his activity . . . A God of faithfulness, . . . righteous and upright is he." (Deuteronomy 32:4) So if Jesus had been God, he could not have been tempted. - James 1:13. (www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_05.htm)
[/blockquote] This makes for good worldly wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:20; 3:19), but not Biblical truth (Proverbs 3:5-6; Romans 11:33).
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ya know leep i know your trying to make me look bad but I'm proud
of my God, the Christ, and my faith.
and I'm grateful for the things that have been reveled to me .i know things that you don't and i feel a sense of pity for you .i want to help you. if i could but open you eyes so you could see how all thing of scripture fit together. i know of others who had an attitude much like the one that you are showing .and they changed because of the truth. i have hope for you as well.
Mister, if you think I am doing this simply to make you look bad, you are once again missing the point.
I don't have to do anything to make you look bad, you are doing a fine job of that yourself.
Your problem and your fatal mistake was in assumin gthat you would be able to put this distortion out there and not be brought to taks for it.
I've been doing this probably longer than you have been alive, and I'm just warming up.
I intend to expose you just like i did several Muslims that appeared out of now where in a couple other forums i belong to.
They start out the same way, all nice and sincere. Then, when they are assured of having an audience, they attack the Bible and Christ with a vengeance.
All too often there isn't anyone willing and able to refute their lies..
Now, notice I didn't say there weren't any able or willing, just no one willing and able,, there is a fine distinction there, one I hope you can appreciate.
When they were faced with their own "Bible" the koran, or quran, and quotes right form it, they either simply disappeared, or some would hang around for one more try..
None stayed fro very long..
You, on the other hand, I expect will stick around..
Because, I've found, by intentional means, that you can't be insulted...I've tried. you can't be reasoned with, you are too fanatical, and you can't be reached, I believe you do not posess the intellect to determine what is true and what is fiction...
Like I've said earlier, i've been doing this along time and against people who can make a stronger argument that you have..
But, there are questions they cannot answer, either, so don't feel like the Lone ranger...But, like you, they use distortion and rhetoric to obfuscate what they are really trying to do-make converts...
And, according to the latest numbers, for as long as you and your cult havebeen at it, you haven't been faring too well...
You may well be a pretty decent guy and maybe you do not mean any harm, but in your zealousness you can cause real harm to someone that may be wavering or may be looking for an easier way out-or an easier way to salvation...There is where the danger lies....
You simply do not have the right to lead anyone in that direction, based solely on your flawed and false doctrine..
if it was just you, man go for it, but you have the possibility of corrupting one of those i spoke of earlier...
Heres a little more for you to contemplate.. At least read it-it's true-more than i can say for what you have been espousing...
The Jehovah's Witnesses as a faith, began sometime in 1879. The original founder of the organization was Charles Taze Russell. Russell was born in 1852 and while still a young man, began to develop a terrible fear of hell. At age 17, Russell got into a long conversation with a man who denied the existence of hell. Russell believed the man was right.
At age 18, Russell ended up in a church where the 2nd coming of Christ was being discussed. Russell became interested in when Christ would come and started studying the Bible. Soon after, he believed he had it figured out.
Russell published a pamphlet called, The Object and Manner of the Lord's Return. This pamphlet was a lengthy, complicated, and incorrect interpretation of completely unrelated verses combined with an intricate method of computing time. The end result of the work he put into these time frame calculations was that Christ would return in the year 1874.
Needless to say, his theory was incorrect. When it didn't happen then, Russell changed his story and said he would come back in 1914. Also when Christ came back, he said it would be a spiritual 2nd coming, meaning we wouldn't see him. This additional belief was most likely tacked on to make sure he wouldn't have to change his date once again when nothing happened in 1914.
In 1874, Russell became a pastor of a Bible class that he had been teaching for 4 years. This event was the real start of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Note the year, 1874, a new religion starts and is somehow the only true religion. Hard to believe? Exactly.
In 1879, Russell started publishing the magazine, "Zion's watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence". This step proved very helpful in expanding the Jehovah's Witness movement. By the year 1880 there were 30 new congregations in 7 states. By 1881, Zion's Watchtower and Tract Society established themselves and it was chartered in 1884. The Jehovah's Witness religion was now official.
In 1912, a Baptist pastor by the name of Rev. J.J. Ross spoke out against Russell in a pamphlet. Once Russell found out about this, he immediately sued Ross. While on the witness stand, Russell was caught in a couple of lies. He was asked whether or not he knew Greek, the original language of the New Testament. He answered, "Oh, yes," but later when he was asked to read some Greek letters he admitted that he in fact, did not know Greek. Also, Russell claimed to be an ordained minister, but under oath he admitted that he was never actually ordained by anyone.
And these are just the lies that we know about. How many more would have surfaced if Russell were examined closer? Are these huge offenses? Not really, but this type of willful perjury does not speak well for the founder of "the only true religion".
I am not implying that all Jehovah's Witnesses have inherited the deceitful characteristic that Russell had (directly), but it would be nice if the founder of the "God's organization" was himself, an honest man. Come to think of it, it would give me better peace of mind as a Jehovah's Witness to know that I didn't have to wonder if what I was being told today was a lie or not. Because if Russell found it acceptable to break the law and lie in court, how much more comfortable was he with lying to his own congregation?
After Russell died in 1916, Joseph Franklin Rutherford A.K.A. "Judge" Rutherford, was elected as the new leader of the Jehovah's Witness movement. Rutherford picked Brooklyn, New York as the headquarters for the Watchtower organization and the Jehovah's Witness faith grew faster than it did under Russell.
Once Rutherford died on January 8, 1942, Nathan Horner Knorr became the next president of the organization. Unlike the first two presidents, Knorr was quiet and tried to stay out of publicity as much as possible. Under Knorr's leadership, a new emphasis was placed on training programs for Witnesses. A new translation of the Bible was also
[align=center]Come Out from Among Them[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]2 Cor 6:14-18 (KJV) [/align][align=center]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: [/align][align=center]for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? [/align][align=center]and what communion hath light with darkness? [/align][align=center][/align][align=center]
[/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center]really?[/align][align=center]...what was Satan doin' in HEAVEN(pre-Job)?[/align][align=center]I remember reading where God(righteous) "fellowshipped" with Satan(un-righteous) ABOUT Job... didn't He? ...IN HEAVEN(...again, righteous)?????[/align][align=center][/align][align=center]..always question....always[/align]
[/align][align=left]really?...what was Satan doin' in HEAVEN(pre-Job)?[/align][align=left]I remember reading where God(righteous) "fellowshipped" with Satan(un-righteous) ABOUT Job... didn't He? ...IN HEAVEN(...again, righteous)?????..always question....always
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[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]I'd answer this with the fact that God is God. He cannot be tempted with evil, (James 1:13). He is all-powerful, and could do anything He chooses to do. He makes the rules for our safety and our well-being. So if Satan was actully in His presence, God was in control. God is above all.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]I'd also like to respond to the things that have been said between Leep and Cataway. I agree with Leep, and have never really called Cataway out on his false doctrine before. I just kinda ignore him. But Leep is right, it's not o.k. to allow that crazy stuff to hurt people, esp. when we could post the truth. So, I'll join you Leep. I'll get my "ducks ina row" and post the truth, as it relates to Jehovah's Witnesses also. Thank you for your stand. [/align][align=left][/align][align=left]And BTW,keep the great stories coming![/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Trae[/align]
COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM
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