Some of the topics, helped me recall...

[FroMan]

A few weeks ago I went fishing with one of my Catholic friends, and his Grumple (Grandpa + Uncle = Grumple). You know, we were catching fish whathever, talking about life (like you do when you fish with people.)

He said something about drinking and asked me if I wanted a beer to drink.

I said "No thanks, I don't drink."

And he kinda chuckled and kinda said, "yeah right whatever" in his head...and honestly it didn't matter anyways, because all we had in the boat cooler was Cokes.

Later on, after the trip was over, I was waiting on Jon (my buddy) to finish cooking me and Grumple dinner when we started talking again. He said, "So what are you going to school for?"

I happily replied. "I'm going to Bible school and I'm majoring in youth ministry."

He sat there for a second kinda stunned (I get that alot actually) and then he said, "Ya know, it's all coming together now. I didn't hear you say one swear word the whole time we fished, and you said that you didn't drink--now I know why."

I was like, yeah yeah yeah...

Then outta nowhere....BAM! A question I didn't expect at all. Grumple said, "Ya know, I don't really go to church. I've heard Baptists say that they'll be the only ones to make it, I've heard the AG say they'll be the only ones to make it, the COC, etc. What do you think?

After carefully considering the question, and trying to find the words to say, I replied, "I think that there will be Baptists, Assemblies of God, Church of Christ, Methodists...all types of denominations will make it into eternity with Christ." I continued,"but the funny thing is, I think a whole lot less of each denomination will make it, than we think, but who does make it will not be exclusive to one denomination."

He sat there thinking about my reply...and another question, out of nowhere..."So what about them? Will they make it?"--he said pointing to Jon, my Catholic buddy. (talk about getting backed into a corner)

And I replied, "Ya know what Grumple, I even think a few Catholics might make it."

He kinda chuckled, I got a look of "nice way to save yourself" from Jon, and that pretty much ended the conversation.

It was an interesting and amusing conversation now that I look back at it. I hope the way I acted, and my responses helped Grumple see a good side to church people. Not one that preaches, "I'm the only right way, all yall are goin to hell"...but one who can go out, have fun, not condemn, and then talk about things with people who don't believe the same way.

Maybe next time we go fishing, the conversation will get back to the topic...and even go a bit further.

[Chuck7]

Fro.
I think you answered very wisely and I agree with you 100% I've seen saints in each of those you mentioned. Episcopal included. I'm starting to learn that one myself.Not to worry about the others... just keep your eyes on Christ Jesus.
Chuck7

[Porter Rockwell]

My personal opinion, even though I come from the Church that professes to be the "The only true and Living Church" (Emphasis on living) is that there will be all denominations who reside with Christ in the next life.

Believe it or not, Brigham Young even gave a quote that said as much (yeah, I know, hard to believe). I'm still looking for it,I will post it if I can find it again.

Ibelieve that God needs good men and women (Saints per se) in any Church or denomination. I believe he has arranged it to be so. Eventually when we all cross over to the other side and when Christ begins his Millennial reign, will get all the truth and non truth all sorted out. Why? How? Because the advesary will not be there to give his lies and screw it all up!

Good luck with your studies and glad to see that there are others besides me who choose not to drink (Although as I have said before, I do NOT judge or condemn the man or woman who does!).I have to admit thougha Hell or a damn will slip out sometimes, so you are a much better man that I. Furthermore, the aroma of those coffee houses just kills me as well as all the fine wines I would love to try with my Italian cooking.

God Bless,

Porter.

[Rebel Hog]

John 3:16
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Put All Your Faith in Jesus -By David J. Stewart

[The Rev]

Awesome Froman.. You showed a lot of maturity.

[Snooky]

My personal opinion, even though I come from the Church that professes to be the "The only true and Living Church" (Emphasis on living) is that there will be all denominations who reside with Christ in the next life.

Porter; Isn't it taught by the Mormon Church that those who are reside with Christ in the next life will only receive a "second class citizenship" or servants type relationship, UNLESS they were members of the LDS church here on earth?

[Porter Rockwell]

Snooky,

In all my life, I have never heard of anyone who resides with Christ as "second class citizenship." I'm assuming that the verbage you are prividingis something culled from some anti-Mormon Web site or document.Correct me if I am wrong, but if am right, I would greatly appreciate your references. Nevertheless,nothing could be further from the truth.

In our doctrine, all men and women have the opportunity to achieve the highest degree of celestial glory. We believe that the highest degree of glory is inhabited by all members of the Godhead. All three separate and distinct. This as you may know is the celestial kingdom in our doctrine.

One does NOT need to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in this life to attain such a glory. We believe that all men will have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ in it's fulness at some point. At some point, they will be given all the truth necessary for their eternal salvation and then have a choice to choose to accept or reject it.

If they accept, that means they would follow the prescribed path of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, having faith in him and his Atonement, completing the necessary repentance, complying with all the outward and inward ordinances. etc.

I'm pretty sure that your "second class" notion is refferring to the teachings and doctrine ofthe terrestrial kingdom. Those who wouldchoose not to follow the prescribedpath as given by the Savior will still be granted a state of glory. Obviously because they are unwilling to comply with the laws for a higher glory, they will remain in a different state. However, those who would inhabit this kingdom are those who "were not valiant in the Testimony of Jesus." Those who worship, adore andabide by all the laws given and are "Valiant in the Testimony of Jesus" in will reign with bothHe and the Father.

Many non mormons or anti-Mormons teach that we "Mormons" beleive that if you do not join our church or comply with our teachings, you are going to hell or automatically guaranteed a "second class" or terrestrial status. Absoltely untrue! Only those who do not comply with celestial law. Even members of the Church who areNOT valiant in their testimony of Jesus will NOT attain celestial glory (To live with BOTH the Father and the Son. Remember we believe in two separate and distinct beings. Those who comply with celestial laws, live with both beings. Those who do not live by the laws given by the Father via his Son, do not want nor will inherit the right to abide with the Father. Thefefore, they are entitled to the presence of the Son in a "second" or terrestrial kingdom).

Furthermore, those who do not wish to comply with the requirements to live with the Son, will still be given some glory, but it will be much less. They will be given the third kingdom or the "telestial." My person opinion is that there will also be several members of the Church of Jesus Christ Of LDS here.

Yeah, I know. It all sounds pretty funky doesn't it!? However, for me this clearly desribes why Christ states that in His Father house, there are many mansions (ie kingdoms of glory) John 14: 2

In my Father"™s ahouse are many bmansions"¢: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Also in Latter Day Scripture:

D&C 98: 18

Let not your hearts be troubled; for in my Father"™s house are amany"¢ mansions, and I have prepared a place for you; and where my Father and I am, there ye shall be also


What a loving Father he is to grant at least some part of his kingdom to those who never even wanted anything to do with him in the first place. I think that sounds an awful lot better than what some teach (i.e. to burn in hell forever and ever).

If you have some additiona questions< try reading Section 76 of the Doctine and Covenants. It describes the visiongiven to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon from God in regards to these three kingdoms and glory. Only lucifer and his angels are not entitled to any glory, but all men everywhere else are.

The revelation can be read in its entirety here: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76

God Bless,

Porter

[Snooky]

Porter; Thanks for the explaination.