Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
Please forgive my ignorance, but for years I have been hearing about the pretribulation rapture. Seems like many Christians use the pretrib. rapture theory while they witnessto scare nonbelievers into a decison to avoid the tribulation.
While I most certainly would love to miss the tribulation, it occured to me that if the rapture does not occur pretrib. there will be an awful lot of confused Christians.
When I first read the above verses it raised several questions in my mind.
1. The verses talk of saints that have come out of the trib. and one can tell they went through at least the first 3 and 1/2 years of the trib. Is this not true?
2. vs. 6 says these saints are part of the first resurrection. Right?
3. The rapture of the dead precedes the rapture of the living right?
4. If this is the first resurrection can there be one that precedes it?
5. If the first resurrection takes place at least midway thru the trib. how
can any other resurrecton take place prior to the tribulation?
6. They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Would that be a reference to the millenium? If it is then they must have been resurrected right at the end of the tribulation. Right?
I think the Holy Spirit is trying to teach you the truth, as per a pre-trib rapture.
The Lord Himseld said Matt 24, and after the tribulation he would send his angels to gather the beleivers from all parts of the World, so it is hard to argue for a pre-trib rapture when the Lord Himself said it would be after the Trib.
Shalom
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"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
The book of revilation is written to whom? Let me answer that for you ok Rev ch1 vs 4: John unto the seven churches which are in asia. Ok lets look at this a second. Are you part of the seven churches Which are in asia? IM not. So no need for me to fear the revilation time if im not going to be hear which takes us to I thesilonians Ch. 1 Vs 10 which says " and to wait for his son from heaven Whome he raised from the dead Even jesus Which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Ok theres another verse in romans ch 5 vs 9 " much more then being now justified by his blood we shall be saved from Wrath through him.
Interesting thing i have learned over the yearsand that is that Truth needs no defence only error needs defending. Numerically anytime something is said twice in the bible it is established. Hope this helps ya
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Life can be an adventure how you live it is up to you
I don't want to offend you but there are many Bible students that do not believe in the "Rapure" or a physical reign of Jesus on the earth. Consider the following:
A. Revelation 20 Can Be Broken Down Into 2 Parts:
[ol][*]The thousand years: V1-10
[ul][*]v 1-3 The binding of Satan for 1000 years [*]v4-6 The resurrection of the saints reigning with Christ for 1000 years[*]v7-10 Satan freed after the 1000 years for a short time [/ul][*]The great judgment scene: v11-15 [/ol]B. Things not mentioned in Rev 20 which Premillennialism requires
[ol][*]The second coming of Christ[*]The bodily resurrection[*]A reign on earth[*]A literal throne of David[*]Jerusalem in the land of Palestine[*]Christ on earth [/ol]
C. The overthrow of Satan is the main theme, not the 1000 years.
Consider the following also:
A. Souls of the beheaded
Revelation 6:9-11
Revelation 20:4
Souls of the slain
Souls of the beheaded
Underneath the altar
Sitting on thrones
Crying for judgement
Given judgment
Scene of defeat
Scene of victory
B. Christians reign with Christ now:
[ol][*]Christ reigns from resurrection to second coming: 1 Cor 15:22-28
[ul][*]Sitting at right hand of God: Acts 2:30-31; Heb 1:3,8; 10:12-13 [*]premillennial theory denies that Christ reigns now at all [/ul][*]Christians reign with Christ: Eph 2:5-6; Rev 5:9-10; Rom 5:17
[ul][*]premillennial theory denies that Christians reign now [/ul][/ol]
C. Qualities of the faithful:
[ol][*]Beheaded because of Message of Jesus and the word of God[*]Had not worshipped the beast or his image[*]Had not received the mark upon forehead and hand: 13:16-19 vs. 14:1
[ul][*]God marked the righteous: 3:12; 7:3; 9:4; 14:1; 22:4 [*]Beast imitates by establishing a policy that all the marked the wicked are marked[*]Which mark you do have? [/ul][/ol]
D. Two categories of men:
RIGHTEOUS: Mark of God
WICKED: Mark of beast
Came to life & reigned for 1000 years
Remained dead through the 1000 years
Where part of first resurrection
Were part of second resurrection
Second death has no power
Died the second death
Reward of heaven
Cast into lake of fire-hell
E. Not speaking of a physical resurrection:
[ol][*]A figurative resurrections are mentioned in: Isa 26:19; Hos 13:14; Ezek 37:1-14[*]Jn 5 contains both a spiritual and physical resurrection:
[ul][*]Spiritual: hour now is...those who hear Jesus shall live: Jn 5:25; Jn 3:3-5 [*]Physical: Wicked & righteous will be raised at same moment: Jn 5:28 [/ul][/ol]
F. Not speaking physical death:
[ol][*]Death in greek, thanatos primarily denotes separation, not ceasing to exists.[*]Physical death means body and soul are separated:
[ul][*]Eccl 12:7 soul return to God body return to dust [*]Gen 25:8,17 Abraham died and was gathered to his people [/ul][*]Spiritual death means man and God are separated:
[ul][*]Isa 59:1-2 Your sins have made a separation between you and God [*]Gen 2:17 The day you eat you shall surely die (They didn't died physically)[*]Lk 15:24 of prodigal; "this son of mine was dead, but now he is alive"[*]1 Ti 5:6 an immoral woman is dead even while she lives [/ul][/ol]
Physical death
Separation of body and soul
Spiritual death
Separation of man and God
Spiritual salvation
Sin removed, man and God reunited
Death is a separation not a ceasing to exist!
G. The first & second deaths and resurrections of Rev 20
[ol][*]First and second deaths of Rev 20
[ul][*]First : is when we sin, die spiritually being separated from God [*]Second : is the lake of fire or hell: 2:11; 19:20; 20:10,14; 21:8 [/ul][*]First and second resurrections of Rev 20
[ul][*]First: when born again; Reunion with God; seated in heaven in God's presence: Eph 2:6 [*]Second: Reunion when lost are brought into God's presence for judgment: Rev 20:12[/ul][/ol]
Thanks for reading,
Trae
hunt genious, dabowhunter asked about the ressurection and the tribulation, and you answer with scriptures concerning "wrath" which is a completely different subject.
I also have a question for you.
Your quote
The book of revilation is written to whom? Let me answer that for you ok Rev ch1 vs 4: John unto the seven churches which are in asia. Ok lets look at this a second. Are you part of the seven churches Which are in asia? IM not. So no need for me to fear the revilation time if im not going to be hear which takes us to I thesilonians Ch. 1 Vs 10 which says " and to wait for his son from heaven Whome he raised from the dead Even jesus Which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Ok theres another verse in romans ch 5 vs 9 " much more then being now justified by his blood we shall be saved from Wrath through him.
Interesting thing i have learned over the yearsand that is that Truth needs no defence only error needs defending. Numerically anytime something is said twice in the bible it is established. Hope this helps ya
My question;
Also, are you saying that the book of Revelation isn't written to the Church of today? That it means nothing to us who were not part of the churches of that day and region? Wouldn't that mean that the Book of Romans was only for the Romans? Corinthians only applies to the Church at Corinthians? Galatians applies only to those of Galatia? ect, ect,? What part of the Bible would apply to you and I?? Just wondering if there is anything left that was written to us.
IMO
Tribulation is brought on by the antichrist, wrath is poured out by God himself.
dabowhunter, I think you have just about got this figured out on your own.
The book of revilation is written to whom? Let me answer that for you ok Rev ch1 vs 4: John unto the seven churches which are in asia. Ok lets look at this a second. Are you part of the seven churches Which are in asia? IM not. So no need for me to fear the revilation time if im not going to be hear which takes us to I thesilonians Ch. 1 Vs 10 which says " and to wait for his son from heaven Whome he raised from the dead Even jesus Which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Ok theres another verse in romans ch 5 vs 9 " much more then being now justified by his blood we shall be saved from Wrath through him.
Interesting thing i have learned over the yearsand that is that Truth needs no defence only error needs defending. Numerically anytime something is said twice in the bible it is established. Hope this helps ya
Thanks for the reply hunt genious. Interesting verses that you quote here. I am persuaded that these two verses are referring to Christ delivering us from the wrath of judgement. I know his blood saves me from hell but I would think if the verse was referring to the rapture it would of been more explicit. Interesting what you write about something being said twice cause the rapture is not mentioned even once. respectfully, dabow
iwas wandering if dabowhunter is even alittle more confused now that so much wisdom has been bestowed upon him?
Not as much confused as disappointed that so many take such a gray area as the rapture and speak adamantly of a pre, mid or post rapture. Most of the verses used seem to refer to the 2nd coming of our Lord. I of course would prefer a pretrib. rapture but would also consider it quite a privalige to suffer a martyrs death.........dabow
gray area ? no for me its black & white there is no rapture.
and many of the thing of Christ have already happened .Jesus has already returned .the saints as you call them have been resurrected to heaven and the separation work is underway.
the great tribulation is not far off. i suspect it will be a bit of a surprise to most people .there not knowing what to expect ,on what is going to happen.
cataway if Christ has already returned please explain how the world missed it? Seems to me according to the Bible that every human will know the day Christ returns and not a select few.
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The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog
The First Resurrection
