It has been stated, more than once, that Trinitarianism is the invention of the Catholic Church. Firts of all , the Catholic Church, while it contains some disputable teachings and traditions, is made up of very large number of true believers, and the insinuation seems to be that if it came from the Catholics, that it is automatically erroneous. That is absurd. There was a time, leading into the Dark Ages, where the official Church, referred to as the Catholic Church, became very tainted and filled with some very questionable characters and practices. This came as a result of some very greedy men. They actually removed the access to the Scriptures away from the common man, citing that only Priests were able to administer the Word. This was an attempt to keep the Word from exposing their motives and also being able to manipulate the masses in order to amass wealth and power. These men were not true Catholics or believers of any sort, but were men that Paul and Peter both warned about that would use the Scriptures, with false teachings for financial gain and all sorts of other wrong doings. This was certainly a dark time when the evil one thought that he would be able to stop the Church--until , God in His faithfulness, raised up the reformers to put the Scripture back into the hands of the common man and to free the Church from the deceptions and greed of these evil men. A distinction has to be made between the Catholic Church and these evil men. They were usning the Catholic Church, but were not the Catholic Church. Catholic simply means universal, and all believers of whatever denomination make up the Church Universal, or the Catholic Church.THis universal church is what is referred to in teh Apostles Creed, when it says that we believe in 'the Holy Catholic Church'The organized denomination known as the Catholic Church, and the universal church, are not one and the same, yet, there are many true believers, within the organized church, that are a aprt of the Universal Church.I know this is a very general and oversimplified essay of these times, but,it would take volumes to go int detail.The point is that, any attempts to discredit something ,because it was a part of the early church, which would be correctly referred to as the Catholic church, needs to be distinguished from the corrupt version that developed, as I have alluded to.
Having said this, as I began, attributing Trinitarianism , and assigning it to the 4th century is false. Tertullian began using this phrase, in his writings form approximately 197-220. This is 200 years form the claims that are made to attempt to discredit Trinitarianism. Thenthere's the argument that the Bible doesn't use the term Trinity, so it can't be true. Well, there are numerous phrases and terms used today that don't appear in the maneer in whichthey are expounded to sum up wht teh Scripture says about them.Modalism, roles being another. So,according to this logic, modalists have no claim either. Then there's the argument that this teaching isn't consistent with the Apostles teaching, or early writings , prior to the 4th century. That is why I have titled this thread, Tertullian.He refers back to Acts 2, which is a very clear and concise portrayal of Trinitarian techings--which is a a summary of the Apostles teachings and then , Tertullian makes a very clear and concise presentation of how any deviations from this are viewed.Here is the link for those that wish to look into it further--http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/tertullian.html. Go to the section entitled 'The Prescription of Heresies', and you'll be able to see the error of the former claims of those who wish to say that the early church and the Apostles didn't teach the doctrine of the Trinity.
Contradictions
The basic problem is that trinitarianism is a nonbiblical doctrine that contradicts a number of biblical teachings and many specific verses of Scripture. Moreover, the doctrine contains a number of internal contradictions. Of course, the most obvious internal contradiction is how there can be three persons of God in any meaningful sense and yet there be only one God.
Below we have compiled a number of other contradictions and problems associated with trinitarianism. This list is not exhaustive but it does give an idea of how much the doctrine deviates from the Bible.
1. Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (IJohn 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). Which one is the true father? Some trinitarians say that the Holy Ghost was merely the Father's agent in conception- a process they compare to artificial insemination! [109]
2. How many Spirits are there? God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Lord Jesus is a Spirit (IICorinthians 3:17), and the Holy Spirit is a Spirit by definition. Yet there is one Spirit (ICorinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).
3. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, why did Jesus pray to the Father? (Matthew 11:25). Can God pray to God?
4. Similarly, how can the Son not know as much as the Father? (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).
5. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him? (John 5:19, 30; 6:38).
6. Similarly, what about other verses of Scripture indicating the inequality of the Son and the Father? (John 8:42; 14:28; ICorinthians 11:3).
7. Did "God the Son" die? The Bible says the Son died (Romans 5:10). If so, can God die? Can part of God die?
8. How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning? (John 3:16; Hebrews 1:5-6).
9. If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time? We know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4).
10. Did "God the Son" surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how could he still be God?
11. If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son have an ending? (ICorinthians 15:24-28).
12. If in answer to questions 3 through 11 we say only the human Son of God was limited in knowledge, was limited in power, and died, then how can we speak of "God the Son"? Are there two Sons?
13. Whom do we worship and to whom do we pray? Jesus said to worship the Father (John 4:21-24), yet Stephen prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59-60).
14. Can there be more than three persons in the Godhead? Certainly the Old Testament does not teach three but emphasizes oneness. If the New Testament adds to the Old Testament message and teaches three persons, then what is to prevent subsequent revelations of additional persons? If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16; Colossians 1:3; 2:2; IThessalonians 3:11; James 1:27). Likewise, we could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons (Revelation 3:1; 5:6).
15. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (ICorinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).
16. There is only one throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Who sits upon it? We know Jesus does (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8). Where do the Father and the Holy Spirit sit?
17. If Jesus is on the throne, how can He sit on the right hand of God? (Mark 16:19). Does He sit or stand on the right hand of God? (Acts 7:55). Or is He in the Father's bosom? (John 1:18).
18. Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says the latter.
19. Given Matthew 28:19, why did the apostles consistently baptize both Jews and Gentiles using the name of Jesus, even to the extent of rebaptism? (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; ICorinthians 1:13).
20. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit? (Romans 8:11).
21. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not? (Luke 12:10).
22. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus? (John 14:26; 15:26).
23. Does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal? Only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ (Mark 13:32).
24. Did the trinity make the Old and New covenants? We know the LORD (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13). If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, and Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17).
25. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, is the Spirit also a son of the Father? If not, why not?
26. If the Spirit proceeds from the Son, is the Spirit the grandson of the Father? If not, why not?
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
I don't know from whence you copy and pasted this set of questions from, but they are the weakest, and most irrelevant and irrational ones I've ever seen. Whoever compiled them is not only weak in theology, but even weaker in logic.They make assumptions that aren't even a point to be considered or raised by Trinitarian theology.Aside from that, this thread is dealing with other issues--specifically ones that I have addressed, and not another oneness/trinity argument.
Col.2:9 [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Yes Greg, I see you only like certain verses of scripture and not all of them.
Don't just say that they are the weakest and most irrational one's you have ever seen. Disprove it! Letall of ussee how you make them right. in your own mind.
There are 26, answer them andyou make it right!
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Acts Chapter 2 speaks of The trinity ? In what Bible ?
Acts 2:38
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Does it say baptize in the Father, Son and The Holy Ghost, or does say baptize in the name of Jesus Christ?
Three or one?
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Tertullian
