We know that the scripture teaches that The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she concieved. Nine months later she brought forth her firstborn son and at the instruction of the Angels, his name was called Jesus. Where was Jesus before this birth was accomplished? Was there even a "Jesus" before this time. Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one Lord and him (singlular) only shalt thou serve. Jesus had not been born yet, but when he was born The bible says that he was in the begginning, that he was God, and that all things were made by him. The bible also says that all things were created by him and for him, and by him all things consist. Yet Jesus was still unborn. Jehovah was concidered the one God and Father that hath made us all. If Jehovah made us all, then where was Jesus? If Jesus created all things, why do we find Jehovah taking the credit? If Jesus was not there in the beginning, where was he? If he was there and there is but one true God, which one is God?, Jehovah or the unborn Jesus? Jehovah said that he would not give his glory or power to another, so why did Jesus say that all power is given me in heaven and earth? Do we have a power struggle going on in Heaven? Do we have one claiming to be God when he is not? If so which one is The True God and Eternal Life? Was Jesus God? Was The Father also God? Jesus said that the Father is in me. Do we have one God living inside another? If this isn't so, why did Jesus say that The Father that dwelleth in me, He does the work? When we see Jesus, do we see The Son, or, The Father? Jesus said that we see The Father. How can we look at the child born, at the Son given, and see the Father? That is what the bible says!
Do we have two Almightys? The almight Jehovah and The Almighty Jesus?
Do we have two creators?
Do we have two saviors?
Do we have two redeemers?
Do we have two that raise the dead?
Do we have two that forgive sins?
Do we have two that purchased the church with thier blood?
Do we have two sitting on the one Throne?
Do we have two coming back for the church?
Could it be that the bible is right, and Jesus said the truth when he declared that "I and my Father are one"
Could it be that the bible is right and the fulness of The Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus?
Could it just be that these three are one?
Could God really be in Christ as the bible says?
Was God really in the world, and received up into glory?
Sirs: We would see Jesus! just look all the way back to the beginning, when there was only one Spirit, Only one God, when there was none beside him, and none was before him, and none would be made after him. The one that you will find will be named Jesus, (in the english Alex). Is Jesus, the salvation of Jehovah, or do we look for another? When the disciples looked again, they saw Jesus only!! Come on Thomas, wasn't there a second person there? Thomas cried, My Lord and My God!! I think I will stand with Thomas here. Jesus was there all the time. My Lord and my God. I call him Jesus.
Good question Snooky,
I will take it to my prayer closet and stay off the coffee today so I mayhelp my mind to be still. It really is a good question .I'm certain my answer will not be your answer but I will enter my closet with an open heart as always. I do enjoy the fellowship with you and Leaf. I'm proud of Leaf for his Christ like spirit in yesterday's discussion.
Snook..I'll answer before the day is gone.
Chuck7
We know that the scripture teaches that The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she concieved. Nine months later she brought forth her firstborn son and at the instruction of the Angels, his name was called Jesus. Where was Jesus before this birth was accomplished? Was there even a "Jesus" before this time.YOu know there was. Snook I would appreciate short concrete questions my friend. We are professionals here.Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one Lord and him (singlular) only shalt thou serve. We all know that my friend.Jesus had not been born yet, but when he was born The bible says that he was in the begginning, that he was God, and that all things were made by him. The bible also says that all things were created by him and for him, and by him all things consist. Yet Jesus was still unborn.You know the eanswer to all of these comments. God sent his only begotten to the earth. Jehovah was concidered the one God and Father that hath made us all. If Jehovah made us all, then where was Jesus? If Jesus created all things, why do we find Jehovah taking the credit? God created all things THROUGH CHRIST JESUSIf Jesus was not there in the beginning, where was he? NO one said he wasn't there in the beginning. SnookIf he was there and there is but one true God, which one is God?,Godthe Father is God...the Bible uses the WOrd begotten otherwise God would call Him brother.but He calls Him Son. However HE Jesus isequal to God.He forgives sinJehovah or the unborn Jesus? Please don't be sarcastic Snook...it is unbecoming.Jehovah said that he would not give his glory or power to another,God changed alot of the rules Snook. Like the lady in John 8 should of been stoned to death...she was not. We should also have been condemned to Hell bu twe are forgiven.so why did Jesus say that all power is given me in heaven and earth? Do we have a power struggle going on in Heaven? NO their perfect love keeps them as one.It will be nicew when we arrive to that same mind set.Do we have one claiming to be God when he is not? Youknow better. If so which one is The True God and Eternal Life? Was Jesus God? Was The Father also God? Jesus said that the Father is in me. Do we have one God living inside another?NO we have two separate who are perfect representations of the other.If this isn't so, why did Jesus say that The Father that dwelleth in me, He does the work? We should be saying the same thing.It is the Father in us tha tcauses us to triumph.When we see Jesus, do we see The Son, or, The Father? We see both...Father and Son in the way I have been explaining it.said that we see The Father. How can we look at the child born, at the Son given, and see the Father? That is what the bible says! Why the explanation mark?
Do we have two Almightys? The almight Jehovah and The Almighty Jesus? Yes
Do we have two creators? No God through Christ.
Do we have two saviors? God is the ultimate Savior for sending His Son.
Do we have two redeemers? Same answer
Do we have two that raise the dead? Yes
Do we have two that forgive sins? No we all have the power to forgive sins.We are all Christ if we are Christians
Do we have two that purchased the church with thier blood? No.. Jesus did that
Do we have two sitting on the one Throne? One on the throne and the SOn by His side
Do we have two coming back for the church? No one...Jesus
Could it be that the bible is right, and Jesus said the truth when he declared that "I and my Father are one" I also agree they are One we disagree on the diffinition of one.
Could it be that the bible is right and the fulness of The Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus?
Could it just be that these three are one? Yes but not in the sense you believe
Could God really be in Christ as the bible says? Same as above
Was God really in the world, and received up into glory? Jesus was
Sirs: We would see Jesus! just look all the way back to the beginning, when there was only one Spirit, Only one God, when there was none beside him, and none was before him, and none would be made after him. The one that you will find will be named Jesus, (in the english Alex). Is Jesus, the salvation of Jehovah, or do we look for another? When the disciples looked again, they saw Jesus only!! Come on Thomas, wasn't there a second person there? Thomas cried, My Lord and My God!! I think I will stand with Thomas here. Jesus was there all the time. My Lord and my God. I call him Jesus.
My question...Will we let our differences divide us???Or will we strive to be ONE as the Father and Jesus are one??
Good morning Bro Chuck. Let me say that this was posted as a result of several posts made by different people and was not to single any one person as a target. It was to the members of the board who wanted to reply. However, I fell that you and I can discuss our differing views without causing division and gain an insight to the other side of the discussion as well.
Before Jesus was born, we both agree that he existed. However one must be fathered and born before he is a son. How was he known in scripture before his birth and what was his name before the angels declared it? The scripture never says that the Son was, or is eternal. He was begotten according to scripture. Feel free to challange me anytime if you disagree because I will do the same. Begotten and eternal are opposites and one can't be both at the same time. How do we reconcile the Begotten Sonship of Christ with the eternal reign of The Almighty?
God sent his only begotten to earth, you say. When was he begotten? To beget means to father, to sire, to cause to have life. Was Jesus begotten twice? If not, what was he before he was begotten? Was he a spirit? What role did he fill, and what was his name at that time? I think these are honest questions raised by your reply and the Trinity teaching.
"God created all things through Christ" That sound OK, but does the bible say that anywhere? I find that all things were made by him, and again by him were all thing created, and without him was not anything made that was made. The "him" refered to was Jesus. If we change the by, to read through, we open the door for cataway to change, was God to was a god.
The term, Jesus was equal to God, is something that needs more thought. You also answered that there are 2 almightys so I am lumping these two together. Equal is to have or share in the same preportion. That definition makes 2 Almightys an impossibility. Almighty refers to being supreme, or above all else. When one is equal, he ceases to be supreme, he can only be co-equal with but not above. So which being is The Almighty? Jesus said, my Father is greater than I. What part of Jesus was inferior, the Spirit within him, or the flesh in which he dwelt?
Jesus changed a lot of the rules, but did he change the word that was forever settled in Heaven? Jesus fullfilled the law, does that mean that we don't need a sacrifice any more? No! Jesus, our high priest has entered into the heavens, of which the Tabernacle was a type, and is offering his blood for our sins, making intersession for us, as the bible says. That is why I have stood firm in times past against using the term, destroyed the law. Without that offering, we are still in our sins, Christ died in vain. That offering is for our sanctification.
When I asked who forgives sins, I was not trying to be sarcastic. You replied that we all have the power to forgive sins. I have to disagree again based on the Tabernacle which was the pattern, only the priest could offer the sacrifice required. Without the shedding of blood, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin. Jesus maketh intersession for us as I stated earlier. The Jews were angry with Jesus because he said that he forgave sins. They said that only God forgiveth sin. Therefore the question, who forgives sin, Jesus or another?
Their perfect love keeps them as one. Again this is a slight veriation from the exact wording of the Bible which says, "are one", not as one. You may say its a play on words, kinda like the Word was God rather than, was a god.
One God was not living inside another, but Jesus said The Father who is in me, he doeth the work. How was God in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself? How was Jesus in the Father, and The Father in Him?
We see both...Father and Son in the way I have been explaining it
My problem is that I am trying to see that in light of the scripture. When I look at our pattern and example, Hebrews chapter 8 and 9, I fail to find a type or shadow that I can relate to. Thus the explanation mark. Some of the posts I mentioned at the beginning appeared to be building a doctrine based on the book of "I think" rather than on the word which is forever settled in Heaven. Some were basing their salvation on what some publishing house had printed and overlooked the written word of God.
Two that raise the dead, what are their names and what is the scriptural ref.?
Was God really in the world, and received up into glory? Jesus was
I agree but have a question. Is Jesus the name of God?
I don't think that I did any slamming or bashing, if I did forgive and pray for me. That wasn't what was intended.
Sounds good bro. I like to dice a small jalapeno(seeds removed) and add to the veggies. My wife want even touch it though. If you try it, be sure that the windows are all open. Those fumes really get to the eyes and lungs.
I'll try tha tI love Jalopeno peppers a few tha tis. I also love answering your replies. It make sme think....In school I can only write 3 sentences or it will freze
Chuck
Sorry for the spelling errors. If I take the time to correct it wil freeze.
Sirs: We would see Jesus! just look all the way back to the beginning, when there was only one Spirit, Only one God, when there was none beside him, and none was before him, and none would be made after him. The one that you will find will be named Jesus, (in the english Alex). Is Jesus, the salvation of Jehovah, or do we look for another? When the disciples looked again, they saw Jesus only!! Come on Thomas, wasn't there a second person there? Thomas cried, My Lord and My God!! I think I will stand with Thomas here. Jesus was there all the time. My Lord and my God. I call him
[&:]
If it wasn't intended for anybody why put my name in parenthesis ?
__________________
"Blessed is He who Comes in The Name of The Lord"
Bro Alex; That was because as I wrote it, I remembered that you had just been discussing the true name in the original text and Hebrew on another thread.
Snook...Our focus skill in reading this week was Fact and Opinion. I will address some of your comments as just that..opinions. Before Jesus was born, we both agree that he existed. However one must be fathered and born before he is a son.Opinion...Maybe to our earthly understandiong but Christ is much more than our feeble minds can comprehend.YOu and I were not there so let's don't even speculate how Christ was fathered before the foundations of the earth.Fact.. 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,{Begotten.. monogenes Greek }..only born..I only have an English Bible Snook and my Bible says He was born.How.??..I have no idea.How was he known in scripture before his birth and what was his name before the angels declared it? Good question ...I guess. Possibly IMHO He was the 4th in the fiery furnace. He was before the creation because God said"Let us make man in OUR image."The scripture never says that the Son was, or is eternal.Well we see in scripture where Christ is before creation and way past teh 1000 year reign. With such evidence I would say He is eternal. Also He is the Word which was in the beginning.{ However was it one minute after God teh Father who knows. And who knows exactly how spiritual beings have sons anyway. But we have many incidences where He is rreferred to as the son and situations where He lacks knowledge that the Father has such as ...Mark13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the SON, but the Father.
He was begotten according to scripture. Feel free to challange me anytime if you disagree because I will do the same. Until it seems futile. Then as mature Christians we should agree that we don't agree.Begotten and eternal are opposites and one can't be both at the same time. NOt according to earthly knowledge. My friend we see through a glass dimly. Let's not act like we know all the answers because we don't.How do we reconcile the Begotten Sonship of Christ with the eternal reign of The Almighty? I don't understand your question.God sent his only begotten to earth, you say. When was he begotten? No one knows.To beget means to father, to sire, to cause to have life.I looked it up in the Greek. The diffinition is above in greenWas Jesus begotten twice?Was the birth of Christ like yours or mine ..NO . Again these are spiritual mysteries and I can only go by with the imformation we have in The Book. I will not speculate on details such as these. If not, what was he before he was begotten? Was he a spirit?Again the Word does not tell us. We do see Him though after the ressurection with a body that walks through walls. I saw Him with my eyes open. He has a form and look of a manbut with no limitations.What role did he fill, and what was his name at that time? Role ...One who fellowshipped with God.possibly. His name. It was probably always Jesus for He was slain from the foundation of the world.I think these are honest questions raised by your reply and the Trinity teaching.
"God created all things through Christ" That sound OK, but does the bible say that anywhere? Col1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
I find that all things were made by him, and again by him were all thing created, and without him was not anything made that was made. The "him" refered to was Jesus. If we change the by, to read through, we open the door for cataway to change, was God to was a god.
The term, Jesus was equal to God, is something that needs more thought. You also answered that there are 2 almightys so I am lumping these two together. Equal is to have or share in the same preportion. That definition makes 2 Almightys an impossibility.Opinion nothing is impossible with God.I see the Fathe ron the throne accordin gto scripture and Jesus beside Him...Acts7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Almighty refers to being supreme, or above all else. When one is equal, he ceases to be supreme, he can only be co-equal with but not above. According to our limited understanding ...yes.But His ways are higher than our ways.So which being is The Almighty? Jesus said, my Father is greater than I. What part of Jesus was inferior, the Spirit within him, or the flesh in which he dwelt? I see it that God is on the throne and Jesus is on the right side. Their minds and purposes are totally in one accord.
Jesus changed a lot of the rules, but did he change the word that was forever settled in Heaven? Jesus fullfilled the law, does that mean that we don't need a sacrifice any more? No! Jesus, our high priest has entered into the heavens, of which the Tabernacle was a type, and is offering his blood for our sins, making intersession for us, as the bible says.NO the sacrifice was once and for all.One excepts that work by faith.He dieth no more.That is why I have stood firm in times past against using the term, destroyed the law. Without that offering, we are still in our sins, Christ died in vain. That offering is for our sanctification. Anothe rissue for a later date.When I asked who forgives sins, I was not trying to be sarcastic. You replied that we all have the power to forgive sins. I have to disagree again based on the Tabernacle which was the pattern, only the priest could offer the sacrifice required. Without the shedding of blood, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin. Jesus maketh intersession for us as I stated earlier. The Jews were angry with Jesus because he said that he forgave sins. They said that only God forgiveth sin. Therefore the question, who forgives sin, Jesus or another? Both forgives sins.
Their perfect love keeps them as one. Again this is a slight veriation from the exact wording of the Bible which says, "are one", not as one. You may say its a play on words, kinda like the Word was God rather than, was a god. ok
One God was not living inside another, but Jesus said The Father who is in me, he doeth the work. How was God in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself? How was Jesus in the Father, and The Father in Him? How is Jesus in us???"AS He is so are we in this world."
We see both...Father and Son in the way I have been explaining it
My problem is that I am trying to see that in light of the scripture. When I look at our pattern and example, Hebrews chapter 8 and 9, I fail to find a type or shadow that I can relate to. Thus the explanation mark. Some of the posts I mentioned at the beginning appeared to be building a doctrine based on the book of "I think" rather than on the word which is forever settled in Heaven. Some were basing their salvation on what some publishing house had printed and overlooked the written word of God.
Two that raise the dead, what are their names and what is the scriptural ref.?
Was God really in the world, and received up into glory? Jesus was
I agree but have a question. Is Jesus the name of God? NO ...Jesus is God 's Son. The Father is Yahweh
John said these things were written that ye might know...God did not make it as hard as you seem to be making it Snooky.
Love ya,
Chuck7
Where was Jesus??
Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one Lord and him (singlular) only shalt thou serve. We all know that my friend.Jesus had not been born yet, but when he was born The bible says that he was in the begginning, that he was God, and that all things were made by him. The bible also says that all things were created by him and for him, and by him all things consist. Yet Jesus was still unborn.You know the eanswer to all of these comments. God sent his only begotten to the earth. Jehovah was concidered the one God and Father that hath made us all. If Jehovah made us all, then where was Jesus? If Jesus created all things, why do we find Jehovah taking the credit? God created all things THROUGH CHRIST JESUSIf Jesus was not there in the beginning, where was he? NO one said he wasn't there in the beginning. SnookIf he was there and there is but one true God, which one is God?,Godthe Father is God...the Bible uses the WOrd begotten otherwise God would call Him brother.but He calls Him Son. However HE Jesus isequal to God.He forgives sinJehovah or the unborn Jesus? Please don't be sarcastic Snook...it is unbecoming.Jehovah said that he would not give his glory or power to another,God changed alot of the rules Snook. Like the lady in John 8 should of been stoned to death...she was not. We should also have been condemned to Hell bu twe are forgiven.so why did Jesus say that all power is given me in heaven and earth? Do we have a power struggle going on in Heaven? NO their perfect love keeps them as one.It will be nicew when we arrive to that same mind set.Do we have one claiming to be God when he is not? Youknow better. If so which one is The True God and Eternal Life? Was Jesus God? Was The Father also God? Jesus said that the Father is in me. Do we have one God living inside another?NO we have two separate who are perfect representations of the other.If this isn't so, why did Jesus say that The Father that dwelleth in me, He does the work? We should be saying the same thing.It is the Father in us tha tcauses us to triumph.When we see Jesus, do we see The Son, or, The Father? We see both...Father and Son in the way I have been explaining it.said that we see The Father. How can we look at the child born, at the Son given, and see the Father? That is what the bible says! Why the explanation mark?
