Question for the Baptists or the "once saved always saved" folks...

[FroMan]

Hebrews 6:4-9







6:4
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,



6:5
and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,



6:6
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.



6:7
For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;



6:8
but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.



6:9
But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.

How exactly do you interpret that passage of Scripture?

I believe personally, in eternal security. But I also believe that a person can basically, forfeit their salvation. God doesn't do it to us...we do it to ourselves. Christian or not we have control over our choices, and after so many wrong choices...I believe a Christian person can push themself away from God, and away from eternal life.

[The Rev]

So Froman what you are saying is that you will only love your children as long as they do right? If they mess up, and maybe even kill someone, and are sent to prison, then you will turn your back on them, is that what you are saying?

[FroMan]

No need to get defensive. I just believe that there is a fairly good amount of Scripture that points to the fact that believers can "lose" their salvation.

God has not turned his back on anybody in this world. He's there for everyone. But those living in sin will not make it into Heaven, because although God is loving, He is holy and He is just. We as Christians are not "invincible." We are tempted everyday by Satan, and if we continually give into that temptation and sin, we continually push ourselves further away from Christ.

And I believe...we can push ourselves away from Christ to the point where we no longer have salvation.

I'm also not saying, that lying here and there, or cursing, every once in awhile or such...will knock us straight out of the Lamb's Book of Life. Especially if we're genuinely sorry and repentant. But in our human minds, we can justify wrong things. And if we habitually, continually, justify doing wrong, when we know that it goes against Scripture that we once believed to be the ultimate truth, than we are on a fast track to hell, just like all of the unsaved people who are out there.

[The Rev]

Okay, now that I've made one point, let me explain the verses you posted..
Veses 4 and 5 clearly describes those who have experienced the saving grace of God, and the language of V. 6 denotes a complete disowning of Christ, a deliberate and descisive abandonment of the Christian faith. The people described are not backsliders but apostates. They have not mearly fallen into sin but have denounced Christ. They have become as those who crucified Jesus. V.7 and 8 The illustration depicts the condemnation of those who turn away from Jesus Christ. v. 9-12 The writer expresses confidence that his readers will remain steadfast, thus tempering his harsh warning with warm encouragement. Faith looks to the One who promises hope looks to the things promised.

The reason I stated that above statement, too many bashers of the once saved all ways saved, use that specifically. Yes, you can turn away from God after being saved, but not simply by backsliding. One must completely turn from God and refuse to believe in God,, Thus the unpardonable sin.

[motor]

This passage does not teach that one can lose their salvation in any way..These verses refer to a hypothetical situation where the writer is saying,And i believe Paul is the wrter,what would happen to a saved person if he could fall away..Paul in no way says that a saved person can lose their salvation..
verse4 in the KJV. says,"For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened(the word enlightened does not mean saved)and it goes on to say,"and have tasted of the heavenly gift(in other words they tasted the heavenly gift but did not partake of it)they went along with) they went along with and had tasted the heavenly gift but did not drink it.they rejected the Lord and willfully turned away from Him.this passage does not have anything to do with the saved person..You cannot be saved by tasting, you must eat and these Hebrews did not eat..

itt isso sad that people go through life believing they can lose their salvation..if that were the case most of us would have to get saved about everyday..

[Hotburn76]

This is a subject that only makes people mad. You only have to be on the right if you belive in it. not picking sides but the people that belive in eternal salvation need to make sure their right. But for those who dont belive in eternal salvation they know where they are at in their walk and if they are saved then they go, if they fell away then they dont so its their choice (free will). but for the one who does not belive in eternal salvation if he was wrong about it then he gets to go no matter what as long as he accepted him one time in his life. So what im trying to say is if you belive in it you better make sure you are right if you want to do bad things and still think you get to go to heven.If your right and im wrong I still make out in the end.

[Snooky]

1Cor 15:1-11 In verse 1 paul says that he preached to them.Verses 3-4 Paul says that he preached the death, burial, and ressurection of Christ. Verse 11 Paul says that they believed. I think according to Eph 2:8-9that these people would be saved people. Nownotice what is said in verse 2, "ye are saved IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you." What is Paul saying here?? Is he saying that the faith that comes by hearing does'nt save? Is he saying that something more is required before Grace that saves through faith is activated? Is he saying that there is something that the saved have to do in order to stay saved? There is many questions that need to be addressed in this passage alone.

What is meant by "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved"? Does the term, "shall be saved" mean that one isn't saved until the end? Does it mean that one who is saved,can loose his saved condition along the way, if he fails to endure? May be I should ask first, what does the word "endure" mean?

Were the 10 virgins in Matt 25:1saved? If they were not saved, why was the term "virgin" chosen to discribe them? If they were saved, what happened to who has let the oil go out of their lamps? If the five foolish were saved, how did they get into the marriage after the door was shut? If all 10 were saved, what was the lesson to be learned here?

[Rebel Hog]

Eph.2:8-9
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Therefore, you cannot become lost by failing in your commitment to Christ. Since your salvation is based on the commitment of God, the loss of personal commitment would not affect your eternal destiny. No, the only way to lose your salvation is to somehow get God to fail in His commitment.

[Rebel Hog]

People who believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved usually quote verses out of context without much study. They will quote a verse such as Hebrew 10:26 which says:

"œFor if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins."�

This verse does not say that we lose our salvation after we are saved. This verse tells us that"� If we sin (reject the ministry of the Holy Spirit who makes the Gospel conspicuous to us) willfully (of our own free will) after we have received the knowledge of the truth (when someone explains the Gospel to us) there remains no more sacrifice for sins."�

[Rebel Hog]

There is another explanation to this erroneous belief. It is the lack of understanding of what salvation by grace truly means. Grace is unmerited favor received from God. Grace cannot be earned. Therefore believing that salvation can be lost means believing that salvation is not by grace alone but it comes through the faithful observance of the law. But what does the Bible say about this matter?

Gal.3
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[5] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.