Just browsing through the Bible today, and came across the verse in the NT (which is a recollection from the OT) that God cannot be tempted. Sorry I didn't jot it down, but I'm sure you guys know to which I'm referring.
Anywhooo, This made me think about Jesus and Satan in the dessert. Did 1.) Satan tempt Jesus, and Jesus resisted, or did 2.)Satan attempt to tempt Jesus, which had no effect at all?
Or thinking outside the box a little, did 3.) God allow the human part of Jesus to be tempted, without intervention, and that part of his human personality was still able to resist the temptation?
And may I say, I hope this is just a minor, but interesting question to ponder, which will not lead to arguments about doctrine or anything else negative.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
I would say that the divine Spirit of Jesus absolutley could not sin, . . .and could'nt even be tempted to sin. Theoretically, the humanity of Jesus when viewed alone had the capacity to sin. This is a misleading and abstract question since we know He did not sin. So the answer is more academic than practical, and more speculative than bearing any real substance. In His humanity, I'd say that He was tempted by satan, and He struggled with His will in Gethsemane. Christ however, did not have our depraved natures, but had an innocent, sinless nature.
As a human Christ always willingly submitted Himself to God, who cannot sin. So to me as a practical matter Jesus Christ, viewed as a combination of humanity and deity . .which He was . . .could not sin, or even be tempted to sin. The Spirit was always in control.
Here's another point taken from scripture . . .do with it as you will. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Christ was Spirit contolled . . .I would even go so far as to say that "Spirit controlled" humanity does not sin. (Which thru misunderstanding what I'm saying will prolly start another thread by itself).
Even tho Jesus as God could not sin ,I would'nt say that the temptations of Jesus were meaningless because Christ was also fully human and was able to feel the struggle and pull of temptation. He overcame that not as God in Himself, but as a human with all the power of God available to Him. He knows exactly by experiance how we feel when we are tempted. Of course He knew that He would be victorious thru the Spirit. I'll even go a step further and say that we can have the same confidence and power, and have the same victory by doing the same thing Christ did by being controlled by the same Spirit.
Also as a side thought . . .Scripture says that Jesus was lead by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I don't want my position to take away from the reality of Christ's temptations. But consider this . . .We know that Jesus did not have a sinful nature. We know that He did not have the inclination and compulsion to sin that we have because of our fallen nature. Yet this does not detract from the reality of what He experianced . . . .On the other hand, if we simply say Jesus could sin then we detract from His deity buy implying that somehow Jesus could exist without God.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I don't want my position to take away from the reality of Christ's temptations. But consider this . . .We know that Jesus did not have a sinful nature. We know that He did not have the inclination and compulsion to sin that we have because of our fallen nature. Yet this does not detract from the reality of what He experianced . . . .On the other hand, if we simply say Jesus could sin then we detract from His deity buy implying that somehow Jesus could exist without God.
Mac, can you give me Scripture references supporting your aboveopinion.
Because I believe that Jesus's human nature, was made up of a sinful nature.But, through his communion with God, he chose not to sin throughouthis life. Jesuswasnot born perfect. He learned perfection through his relationship with the Father.
The same wayJesus as a human was tempted,Jesus as a human needed to pray. He wasn't just God walking around in a human body. He was in factcompletelyhuman. Part of being "completely human" is the fact that every person who's ever lived, has had a human nature, and that nature is sinful.
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πνεύμα γ*μισα
"Error never shows itself in its naked reality in order not to be discovered. On the contrary, it dresses elegantly, so that the unwary may be led to believe that it is more truthful than truth itself."
-Irenaeus of Lyon
Although Jesus had a complete human nature, He did not have the sinful nature of fallen humanity. If He would have had a sinful nature He would have sinned. He neither had a sinful nature , nor did He commit sinful acts. He was without sin, He did not sin, and sin was not in Him. Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Christ did not have a human father, so He did not inherit a fallen nature from Adam. Instead, He came as the last Adam, with an innocent nature like Adam had in the beginning. Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Jesus had a complete but sinless human nature.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
This is more intersting than I first thought. Is there a difference between Satan tempting Jesus, and Satan attempting to tempt Jesus.
Scripture does not only say that we should not tempt God, but that God cannot be tempted. Of the original choices I posted, 1 through 3, that would mean choice one is out the window. It has to be choice 2 or 3.
(Unless you don't believe that Jesus was God on Earth.Though we may differ on the nature of the God/Jesus existance, Mac, I , and many others here agree that Jesus was both God and man.)
So, was Jesus tempted? You have to feel tempted in order for it to count, right? I mean, if I were dieting, and someone temted me with a chocolate donut, I would feel that temptation and have to resist it. On the other hand, if someone tempted my with brussel sprouts, I wouldn't even feel the temptation, because I'm not too fond of them...
Does the second temptation in my example count? Or was it not even a temptation?
So, if Jesus did not even feel tempted by Satan, then choice 2 is the obvious answer.
If The human part of Jesus felt the temptation and overcame it, either by human will, divine influence, or a combination of the two, then choice 3 would be the answer.
Plus, there's the side issue that has arisen. Did the human part of Christ have a sin nature? If so, then it still does. Hard to comprehend that our Saviour, then Messiah, our God on earth could be capable of sinning.
Like I said before, interesting stuff to ponder...
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted . . .with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
So can God be tempted by that which is not evil?
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Mac, I , and many others here agree that Jesus was both God and man.
Oh I understand that perfectly . . .why do you point that out?
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So, was Jesus tempted? You have to feel tempted in order for it to count, right?
I disagree . . .Even if Christ had no desire for what the devil offered, Satan was tempting none the less. Apparently, according to scripture he was ineffective in his tempting. Which brings us to your next question:
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Did the human part of Christ have a sin nature?
I say no, because even in His flesh He was the Son of the living God. I don't believe that Christ ever considered giving in to the devils temptations. I'm not sure that you or I understand all the ins and outs of a sin nature. I know its not a sin to be tempted, but to give in to it is something else. If I were fasting 40 days and the devil offered me food . .would it be a sin nature to want the food? . . .or would it be what the body needed? Would it be an evil thing (note above, James 1:13) to want the food? So I can see where Christ could be tempted to eat, but not tempted to eat that which comes from evil.
It may not even be pertinant, but Christ had just been presented to John and the folk there. If I remember right, He immediatly went into the desert to be tempted of the devil.
Which brings up another point that I have already alluded to. Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. It seems that it was part of Gods plan that Jesus was to be presented to the devil also. Notice that in the scriptures that Satan stated repeatedly with each temptation "If thou be the Son of God". This brings up the question to me "For what purpose was this ordeal for?".
Possibly it would help if you would just state your purpose or idea behind this thread, then we could get more to the point. Whether or not Christ had a sinful nature in His flesh, or whether or not He was truly tempted in His flesh, means . . .what? I keep running into folk that feel that to be tempted is a sin. Maybe some things that tempt us, should'nt. As a human I can be tempted by all kinds of things . . and am. But rather than see it a sin to be tempted, I see it as a victory to overcome the temptation, and a sin to succomb to it.
I'll look into the scriptures a little more. . .I have a feeling that there are a few little jewels there that we havn't touched on concerning Christs 40 days in the desert.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Jesus absolutely did not have a sin nature. Sin, at the root, is empowered by a rebellion to the ways of God. Christ had no such struggle or inclination. As Mac pointed out, He had no human father, by design, and did not receive a sin nature. He had the potentiality to sin as Adam did, within His humanity, and faced temptation in His humanity, overcoming in the same manner as we can--through walking in perfect submission to the will of the Father.When we are born again, we receive a new nature that coexists with the old ill effects of the sin nature we were born with. The conflicts(Romans7)we experience are due to our having been under sins influence for the length of our lives prior to our salvation--it had effected our whole being--mind , body ,and soul. Now we are instructed to have our minds renewed.(Romans 12)What is the renewal that is taking place--a relearning, according to and in concert with our new nature that we received by faith. The old nature's influence is to be gradually dissolved as we grow in grace, and we are sanctified by conforming to the image of His dear Son.We're to take up our cross daily, meaning to yield ourselves over and over again on the altar--a place of death, to prove what is the good and acceptible will of God.Romans 6 speaks of our yielding to either the effects of the old sin nature we were born physically with, or to yield our members as instraments of righteousness by yielding to the control of the Spirit--which we are only able to do because of our new birth. Christ accomplished this for us in not only His death, but in His life--He who knew no sin, became sin for us---not became sin by having experienced it or having a sinful nature He had to overcome, but by living out the pefect life , as a man--a fully mature man, who was tempted in all points like us, yet never yielded to those temptations. Had He ever given in, His sacrifice would have been useless, because He then would have partaken of a sin nature--making Him no longer the Lamb without spot or blemish--the perfect substitute--sacrifice for our sins.He took on Himself the entire load of all sins ever committed by all men--the weight of which is unimaginable--which accounts for the difficulty He encountered at Gethsemane--the agony was maybe a small portion, attributable to the anticipation of the physical pain, but , this pales in comparison to the anticipaton of bearing our sins in His own body--He who knew no sin became sin--carried our sin--yet never once did He stumble in thought or deed. In answer to another thread, He did incorporate faith in His life on this earth--He set the example of how to live by remaining submitted to the Father's will completely and entirely as a man----this is a portion of His emptying Himself that Phillipians 2 refers to--His relinquishing of His divine position.
God cannot be tempted
