I have been pondering this a bit, you know how it is while sitting in the deer-stands.
Did Jesus the man have to rely on Faith?
The more I ponder it, the more I conclude that the answer is no, atleast not to the degree anyone else would.
You and I must rely on faith, the belief in things un-seen. Jesus saw first hand. Jesus was conciled to by Angels.
Could Jesus have completed his task without the advantages of the personal tutoring he recieved?
Was Jesus the man groomed by God for the task he was to fullfill?
Is Faith a gift from God, is that why the bible say's No man can say/know Jesus is God without it being revealed to himby the Holy Spirit?
Does the expression "Seeing is Believing" have a role to play?
Could this be the reason we don't see the manyday to day examples of the modernmiracles, thata simple reading of the bible would lead us to expect to see?
The fewer miracles done the fewer to be seen. The result is a lack of Faith that comes from the lack of"Seeing is Believing". The result of that is a lack of enough Faith to accomplish the miracles thatthe bible tells us we can do?
Is that why we don't cure the blind, heal the lame, walk on water, move mountians or handle snakes without being harmed?
Just one of the things I have been pondering, you know how it is, sitting up in the deer-stands.
Thanks
Mr-Pirk
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A proud owner of a Flying Vee. Bestowed by the fine Gentleman VC1111 himself.
I agree Christ the man did not have to rely on faith as such.
What he did have to rely on and what he is the pure example
of is love. It was Gods love for us that brought Christ in the
form of man. I think it is a greater testament going through
what He did for love than by faith.
Yes I do believe to a certain degree Christ relied on faith and here e is why...
Faith looks like this.
1. One who depends upon God by praying { He did this much}
2. One who stands on God's Word totally { Matt.4 example when battling Satan.}
3. When He prayed never the less not my will but thine be done. Faith goes against your own natural desires but in a love for God obeys Him instead.
4. Faith can hardly be separated from love. Galations5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
In Galatians, Paul was arguing against a legalistic heresy. In Galatians 3:2 he asks, "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" The answer, of course, is that they received the Holy Spirit by faith, not by the law. He asks something similar in verse 5: "Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?" The answer, of course, is that the Holy Spirit -- and salvation -- comes by faith, not by law.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Yes I do believe to a certain degree Christ relied on faith and here e is why...
Faith looks like this.
1. One who depends upon God by praying { He did this much}
2. One who stands on God's Word totally { Matt.4 example when battling Satan.}
3. When He prayed never the less not my will but thine be done. Faith goes against your own natural desires but in a love for God obeys Him instead.
4. Faith can hardly be separated from love. Galations5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
I won't argue this issue but I feel like the verse you use is
directed at the Galations (and us) not at or about Christ.
It would seem that it pertains to Christ to pray according to His sensuality. For it is written (Psalm 83:3) in the person of Christ: "My heart and My flesh have rejoiced in the Living God." Now sensuality is called the appetite of the flesh. Hence Christ's sensuality could ascend to the Living God by rejoicing; and with equal reason by praying.
Further, prayer would seem to pertain to that which desires what is besought. Now Christ besought something that His sensuality desired when He said (Matthew 26:39): "Let this chalice pass from Me." Therefore Christ's sensuality prayed.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
The verse in Galations is 2 fold. Yes ...Paul has written a letter about how we are not justifiedby keeping the law but by a love that produces faith.
My reason for the verse is simple...to show Faith, Hope and Charity { Agape| work together. No biggy though It's only my opinion. Christ emptied himself ....the question of course is to what degree?
Love ya,
Chuck
I don't know Mark . . even from the perspective of His humanity it seems to minimize the deity to try to view Christ as having to rely on faith. Would I be correct in saying that Christ was the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen? We know that our faith is in Christ . . .theres a gift of faith . .and theres faith that comes from the fruits of the Spirit. So it seems that faith is a gift from God. I would say that Christ had a faith that was so perfect and sublime that we can't compare it to our portions of faith. IMHO, I see Christs faith as an aspect of God rather than something He had to rely on. Jesus is Lord and the object of our faith.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Now Christ besought something that His sensuality desired when He said (Matthew 26:39): "Let this chalice pass from Me." Therefore Christ's sensuality prayed.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
PKnTX I especialy enjoyed your first post on this thread. I spend so much time studing the finer points of scripture I sometimes lose sight of the point your post makes.
Thanks for reminding me of the Love aspect to the Christ.
Chuck to me Biblical Faith means having a belief in somethinginspite ofthe natural world. Kind of like whatGidion did when he put out the fleece.
Your list of what faith looks like, while up-lifting doesn't address what I was pondering.
Let me word it this way... Faith is the opposite of Doubt.
Faithis what aman uses to overcome his Doubts.
Jesus the manhad no Doubt in him.
Was that a result of being tutored by Angels and his personal relationship to God? Was what he personaly wittnessed in the tutoring from Angels and Visions from God the thnig that allowed him to have such Faith? To have no doubt and therefore no need to rely on faith?
Rebel Hog you are correct in showingthat although Jesus, the man, prayed he didn't pray because of any doubt or lack of faith. He prayed for the cup to be taken awaybecause he didn't want to experance seperation from God. But as 100% man Jesus had to experance this as well. As all men do.
Leaf River Mac it is odd but as I posted this topic I was afraid I would be minimizing the "Man" Jesus.
I will have to ponder the concept of " Christ was the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things un-seen" and how it figures into Jesus having to rely on faith.
It will give me something more to think on in the deer-woods.
Thanks
Mr-Pirk
__________________
A proud owner of a Flying Vee. Bestowed by the fine Gentleman VC1111 himself.
Did Jesus have to rely on Faith?
It's only my opinion. Christ emptied himself ....the question of course is to what degree?
