I have been pondering just how to go about this for the past 3 weeks or so.
One vital aspect of maturing as a Christian is reading and interpreting scripture.
It is vital, Paul chides one group of folks for not advancing past the infant stage.
He confronts them for not facing up to and confrontingfalse teachings.
Question #1.
Can you be a good Christian and yet not question some so-called christian teachings?
The bible is unique in this respect.
Any other subject\concept\thinking\understanding can be studied and understood to it's fullest extent, beyond that you are a teacher.
Once you are a teacher you can still reach the goal of completely understanding all aspects of the subject of study.
Our knowledge of the structure of the Atom is less than 100 years old. Yet our understanding of the basic structure of the atom has been established, without question, for sometime now.
Our basic knowledge of the basicstructure of God is today just as hotly debated as it was almost 2000 years ago. One of the reasons for this is the unique way the bible is written compared to other books.
The bible is written in a manner that even a person who knows nothing can pick it up and gain enough of an understanding to save him\her and his\hers.
It is also uniquely written so that even the greastest scholars die not knowing the complete picture.
It is written in such a manner that you may study it for years and not "see" a particular understanding, yet once "seen" you can't "un-see" it.
The brand new believer can state " I KNOW God is God and I KNOW I ama sinner and I KNOW Jesus is my saviour" and be 1000% correct and justified in God's eyes.
The scholar who never grows beyond that, is less than he\she should be, "He who has been given much, much will be demanded of him".
Paul was spoken of in this manner in his confronting those who taught falsely.. "Paul is forcefull and weighty in letters but is mild\meek in person".... Paul explained that he was mild in person because he was dealing with infant Christians.
He went on to chide them for not being mature and therefore not worthy of mature discourse.
Paul chided folks for being willing to let "so-called" teachers slap the face of desenters of thefalse teachings.
Surely these infants were mature enough to understand the basicteaching of turning the other cheek?
Paul says that if that is their "wiseness" ,then he is glad he isn't as wise as them.
(as a side note---Porter did\has done a much better job of turning the other cheek than anyone, with perhaps the exception of Chuck7)( This should in no way be seen as an endorsement of Porter's teachings by me)
As a general rule Christians do not get into heated debates with non-Christians over the structure of God.
Can the finer aspects of the structure of God be understood without debate?
I say not. There are much greater scholars of the bible than anyone we have access to on this forum and yet they argue passionately over the issue.
I will do my best to offer a thread in the next day or two showing why any trinity believer should atleast have enough doubt to atleast know, the trinity is lacking in completeness.
I fully expect and desire desention, that isone of the wayswe grow and learn. We are human and that is human nature.
A difference of opinion is most certianly part and parcel to growing as a human, and most certianly part and parcel to Christianty.
I will go so far as to venture that a difference of opionion is what seperates man from God, God say's he is boss, man says he wants to be boss. A Christian admits God is boss and admits that man has to reconcile man to the fact God IS boss.
Can a man\woman grow as a Christianwithout disagreement?
I will venture further that the more a Christian grows the more desention he\she will have "all' the time with the "world", and alot of the time with his\her brothers.
God desires that the Christians be all of one mind, I agree that would be great. YetGod also knows that man disagrees with man, that is why some are teachers and some are students.
I see myself as a student on this forum.
Man should disagree with man when a greater learning is learned, that is the way we grow.
I have tried to focuse my recent postings on building unity among Christian brothers\sisters.
There must also be made room for disagreement or there is no learning.
This last item has in my opinion has\is been stiffled due to the damage Swamp Monster and I did to this forum with our disagreements with the LDS\mormons.
It is my opinion that the damage control has\is stiffled\ing proper desention among Christians.
Sorry if thispost seems a bit wondering, I type slow and it is now 2 hours into it.
Thanks
Mr-Pirk
Where is Leaf River Mac???
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A proud owner of a Flying Vee. Bestowed by the fine Gentleman VC1111 himself.
YetGod also knows that man disagrees with man, that is why some are teachers and some are students.
Mattew 20:26
26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Quote:
I will venture further that the more a Christian grows the more desention he\she will have "all' the time with the "world", and alot of the time with his\her brothers.
2 Cor 12:20
20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: (KJV)
mr. pirk i look forward to the future comments, i'm tired right now, i've had very little sleep the last couple of days, andi have been reading pretty much all afternoon, i searched for these verses and thought they may apply, but really didn't understand what IICor. 12:20 is saying, i look forward to your future post, as for leaf, read a few of his last few post and it should help shed some light on that, i miss his input and knowledge, but i understand his feelings[&o]
good night and God bless, keith
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John 3:16
things are more like right now than they've ever been
It is our attitude at the beginning of a difficult task which, more than anything else, will affect its successful outcome.
William James
Dear Mr. Pirk,
As for me.; I do not think understanding all of the contents of the Bible is of the utimate importance. Rather ; I think obedience to the scriptures we know is. For me when I think about loving God , I think the following applies to my life.
A. Making time to read His Word. John14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
B. That word keep also implies obedidience and abiding. SO to love God one must also obey what he / she knows to be the truth.
C. Another way we love God is to walk in faith. 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
What does that look like for me as an individual ? I must spend time reading my Bible. I must put this old man to death daily so I can say yes to God in obedience. I must decrease so that He can increase.
Now about loving others..
This is the hardest because within nearly every subject two or more views can be supported. If not there would not be so many different denonminations. If we truly valued each other we would have less fights. Most of our disagreeements are not over Heaven and Hell areas. Taz hit it by posting all those scriptures about pride. If we truly love our neighbor we should be thinking about his / her benefits. If we do God will bless us. When we seek our own we tend to go backwards. When we seek the benefit of others we ourselves get blessed. I beleive God's Word was writen the way it was so we would be dependent on Him and His Spirit. He said His Spirit "Would guide us into all truth not our intellect. Our intellect is helpful but is very limited. It helps us to decode the written language and to use past experiences to comprehend but the Spirit quickens the Word. I do believe when the wisdom comes from God it will have these attributes.
James 3:2425But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
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Our problem is ...is that Paul used harness alot to deal with individual churches. For some reason folks loe to use those verses others instead of the mercy verses. And there are enough rebuking verses to support their rebuking. However there are just as many mercy and patient verses to support that as well. Here is where wisdom must prevail . To know the right word at the right time. There are many verses in Proverbs that talk about this subject. It is called wisdom. I believe love will find the right way to admonish a brother. A way that will cause him or her to grow closer to our Lord and not run from our Lord. It's like tha tin the classroom. When dealing with slow and behavior kids each one takes a different prescription. No two children are alike and no two Christians are a like. There are no cookie cutter Christians. It will take God's Spirit to unite our hearts .
God bless ,
Chuck
Brother Pirk, it's like you and Swampmonster defending your beliefs and not
blowing kisses and holding hands with pepole who have to add other books
to the One andOnly Bible we belive in. What do other pepole think we are
suppose to do, Not defend it? How about if a non-Christian Jew enters the
forum? Hey, they believe in the Bible, but not that Christ was the Messiah.
Are we suppose to blow kisses, hold hands and tell them we love them and
just leave it at that, or defend Our Savior JesusChrist?
I personally thank you and Swampmonster for being our spoke persons on
our beliefs of the Bible. Again, thank you brothers!
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
If I see something which I believe is none Biblical Of course Iam entitled to question it, iam not entitle to belittle you or insult you or Judge you.
the word does give me the right to set you straight by using the scripture and showing the error, but with love and understanding.
Alright Bro. Alex and Chuck, Iam really waiting on howy'all are going to defend
the debates with the mornons. Let's see if y'all can do as good or better thanBro.
Pirk and Bro.Swampmonster.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Dear Rebel,
I honestly do not see in any of Jesus's teachings to defend the gospel. Alex and I do not have the same calling Reb. I am called to be a school teacher. In that realm I minister to children and during the holidays I teach fervently. Such as Easter, Christmas etc. With my student's parents I look for ways to sow seeds.
The biggest man I am presently dealing with is me. I believe Alex just posted an excellent post on holiness in context of relationships. That my friend coincides with the great commandments.
The Gospel is of Prime importance.[align=left]Just before Jesus ascended into heaven, he gave his disciples clear instructions:[/align][blockquote]
All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. (Mat 28:18-20)
Eph5:
[11] And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
[12] For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
[13] But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
[/blockquote]
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
So my friend, that makes you better than me?
Rebel..I don't quite understand that statement. One thing though ...I made it very clear about a week ago before you folks and God.and that is I would stay clear of controversy, This I feel is heading that way and I want to keep my word. I am one to learn from my mistakes. So God bless .
Chuck
Is there learning without disagreement
