Could it be Oct. 4th?

[DaveH]

What follows is the 3rd part of a series on end-time events. I've ben hearing a lot of talk lately from pastors that essentially say when are in the "end-times." I know that Christians since the time of Paul have felt they were in the end times and I also realize that no one but the Father knows the exact time of Christ's return. Most of what I've heard had been very compelling. So is this . . .read the whole thing - it won't take long.


Paul's Epistle...
"He's Coming "“ When?"
Part 3 of a series.


In part one of this special series about the Lord's soon return, we looked at reasons why we have no choice, Biblically, but to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will return someday for His own. In part two, last week, we looked at reasons to believe that the next major thing to happen related to the end-times will be the Rapture of living Christians (probably following the resurrection of the dead in Christ so closely as to be almost co-incident "” see 1st Thess. 4:16-17) to meet Christ in the air.

The next (and obvious) question to consider is... when? When will this happen? As I pointed out earlier, the disciples were curious about this, too. (See Matthew 24:3.)

Only God knows the answer, of course. But let's look at some interesting speculation "“ and, please, that's all it is. No predictions here. But there is a reason for considering these things carefully.

I read somewhere that the Old Testament predicted the exact time "“ to the day "“ when the Lord would make what we call His triumphal entry into Jerusalem, beginning what we've come to call His "passion week." To the day! And yet, as far as we know, no one living when it happened "“ not one scholar "“ not one rabbi "“ not the disciples "“ no one recognized this event in advance for what it was.

Will it be the same with His Second Coming? Is the timing hidden somewhere in the Bible?

Well, the Bible contains many clues that might help us. They involve God-ordained number systems. They involve patterns. Such patterns, for example, can be seen in the feasts that God ordained for Israel "“ feasts which are still observed by Jews to this day.

One common speculation involves the belief that all of history involves a 7,000-year span, modeled on the seven-day week of creation. After all, 2nd Peter 3:8 reminds us that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." Seven days, seven thousand years.

So that would be 4,000 years before Christ, 2,000 years since Christ's life on Earth, and then 1,000 years as the millennium (which would be, in this picture, comparable to the 7th day "“ the day of rest "“ the Sabbath). According to this picture, something's about to happen any day now.

This concept isn't new. Early Christian fathers wrote of this, including Barabas (around AD 100), Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (around AD 150), Lactantius (around AD 325) and Methodius, Bishop of Tyre (around AD 300). And note that none of what they said could be ascribed to "wishful thinking" "“ which is the reason given by some critics today for our belief that the Lord's return might be very near. When they wrote, it was still the better part of two millennia away!

And it might surprise you to know that Jewish scholars over the ages also believed that the world as we know it would last only 6,000 years. One Jewish scholar "“ Tanna debe Eluyyahu "“ taught, "In the first 2,000 [years] there was desolation (no Torah, from Adam to Abraham), [then] 2,000 years the Torah flourished, and the next 2,000 years is the Messianic era." But he adds, "He [the Messiah] should have come at the beginning of the last 2,000 years; the delay is due to our sins." This Jewish scholar seems blinded to the fact that the Messiah did, indeed, come 2,000 years ago "“ and He came because of our sins! What the rabbi called the "Messianic era" we would call the "Christian era," or the "church age."

While we're talking about things Jewish, here's something most interesting:

The Jewish calendar year this year ends October 4th on our calendar, just in time for a rare solar eclipse. The Jewish new year is the holiday of Rosh HaShanah, which celebrates the anniversary of the creation of the world. On the Jewish calendar, it's the first day of the 7th month. Might it also become the first day of the 7th (and final) millennium?

Also "“ an ancient Jewish source predicts that the Messiah will appear in the year 66. Well, the new year that begins at Rosh HaShanah in October, 2005, is, on the Jewish calendar, the year 5766.

One more thing... Rosh HaShanah is the Feast of the Trumpets. What does the Bible tell us will sound at the Rapture? The "trumpet call of God." (1 Thess. 4:16.) In fact, the Feast of the Trumpets involves a series of more than 90 trumpet blasts, the last one of which has a special name "“ "Teki'at Shofar" "“ a long blast signaling victory. Could that quite literally be the "last trump" referred to by Paul in 1st Cor. 15:52 and 1st Thess. 4:16?

And the Feast of the Trumpets is actually a two-day event because it happens on the new moon, which, by Jewish custom, must be visually observed in Jerusalem to be official. If it's not one day, then it's the next. That's the way it has always been done "“ since long before modern timekeeping methods existed. And because it's not been traditionally known in advance which day is correct, the Jewish idiom is this: "Of that day or hour, no man knows."

Now, where have we heard that before? In the words of Christ Himself, referring to His return, He said, "of that day and hour no one knows..." (Matt. 24:36 NKJV.) What a coincidence! Or is it?

What's more, authors Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal, writing in "The Feasts of the Lord," (p. 114) note that "ancient Jewish tradition held that the resurrection of the dead would occur on Rosh Hashanah [the Feast of Trumpets]. Reflecting this tradition, Jewish gravestones were often engraved with a shofar."

And here's another interesting observation related to numbers and patterns. In the Bible there are multiple 14,000-day "generations" (that's about 38.8 years each). There were exactly 14,000 days that the Israelites wandered in the desert before entering the Promised Land (due to their rebellion). There were exactly 14,000 days from the time Jesus entered Jerusalem (his "triumphal entry") until the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. (due to the Jews' rebellion).

And now "“ this is the interesting one "“ there will be exactly 14,000 days from the capture of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount by Israel in 1967 to Rosh HaShanah "“ October 4, 2005! Could this be counted as another period of rebellion? God gave Israel the Temple Mount in 1967 "“ but they refused to take it and rebuild the Temple "“ or even to remove the current desecration of the site. In the 38 years since, they have paid dearly for this through the constant attacks of their enemies.

It looks like we can expect something significant to happen on or about October 4th. Might it be the Rapture? Or might it be something entirely related only to Israel (such as a new war)? I don't have an answer for that.

In any case, Jewish scholars and Christian leaders of the ages all seem to agree and point to right about now as the time the Messiah would come.

Next week, Lord willing, we'll continue this series with a look at one indisputable "sign" that the Lord's return is near.

[Rebel Hog]

Matthew 24:36
24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father
only.(KJV)

Bro.Dave, yes we have to believe the signs that the Bible istelling us, but comming
to a Year, Month, Day and Hour.....That's like picking anumber at the horse track.

[DaveH]

I understand that Reb. And so does Paul Heil--the writer of the article. That's why he states over and over that neither he -- nor anyone else -- knows the day or the hour. He is simply pointing to some interesting facts to consider . . . and they're pretty compelling! Hedoesn't say that Christ WILL return on Oct. 4th -- it would be very foolish to say so since it would then be incorrect, but he makes a good case for it being sometime close to then . . . possibly . . .

[Rebel Hog]

Bro.Dave, I like the article for the purpose of telling and giving insight on
what is close to the comming, to pepole that have doubts on this matter.

I respect Paul Heil for his research on it, but predictions is like a time pool
and I prefer to heed to Matt.24:36. Ifa person has been Baptized in
the name of Jesus, and is a living Christian,they have been Sealed withthier
convictions of our Lord Jesus christ and should not be afraid of all the disasters
that are to come. When the day comes, it comes, and I know I am ready.
I ask all my brothers are you ready to accept our Lord?

[Alex The Hawk]

If I may put my 2 Cents worth in here.

You all Know Iam A Hebrew Christian, Iam fluent in Hebrew and Greek and also in Hebrew Customs.
3 Things which are necessary to interpret the Hebrew Writtings of The New Testament.

I believe the Gentile Church of Today has committed many errors in interpreting the bible as if were a gentile writtings, well it is not.

The Life and expressions of Jesus are totally Hebrew, this verse no one knows the Hour or the day, has being preached by gentile preachers as if the Coming of the Lord is a secret, i believe from my hebrew perspective this is an error.

I will begin by explaining the Jewish holiday which has to do with this expression by Yeshua (Jesus).

[align=left]There is a feast that leads into Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. The feast last for forty days. The rams horn is blownfor 30days to call for repentance. The last trumpet is blown on Rosh Hanah which this year is Oct. 4. Glory to GOD! [/align][align=left]It all makes me think of the dream I had where we had our immortal bodies while we were still here and we were to help those Christians that did not have there immortal bodies and had to be martyred because they were not ready for the LORD's return. We had our immortal bodies on earth for forty days and then the rapture. Like the story of the five virgins that some had oil in their lamps and five didn't.[/align][align=left]We are so so so close. I have shared this with others and they don't get it. It is so sad. The following story callsthe ones that are left to be in the Days of Awe(tribulation). I have highlighted key points. Let me know what you think.[/align]
Rosh HaShanah
The Season of Teshuvah
A special season known as Teshuvah, which in Hebrew means "to return or repent," begins on the first day of the month of Elul and continues 40 days, ending with Yom Kippur. Thirty days into Teshuvah, on Tishrei l, comes Rosh HaShanah. This begins a final ten-day period beginning on Rosh HaShanah and ending on Yom Kippur. These are known as the High Holy Days and as the Awesome Days (Yamim Nora'im, the days of awe). The sabbath that falls within this ten-day period is called Shabbat Shuvah, the Sabbath of Return. Five days after Yom Kippur is Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles. Teshuvah begins on Elul 1 and concludes on Tishrei 10, Yom Kippur. Each morning during the 30 days of the month of Elul, the trumpet (shofar) or ram's horn is blown to warn the people to repent and return to G-d.
Teshuvah (repentance) speaks to all people. Those who believe in the Messiah are called to examine their lives and see where they have departed from G-d. It is a call to examine the Scriptures and the evidence that the Messiah was who He said He was.
G-d has always had a heart to warn people before He proclaims judgment. G-d warned the people before the flood, and He warned Nineveh before it was ruined. He does not want anyone to receive the wrath of His judgment (Ezekiel [Yechezekel] 18:21-23,30-32; Zephaniah 2:1-3; 33:1-7; 2 Peter 3:9).
The whole month of Elul is a 30-day process of preparation through personal examination and repentance for the coming High Holy Days. The shofar is blown after every morning service. Psalm 27, which begins with "The Lord is my light and my salvation," is also recited at the end of the morning and evening liturgy. The message from Elul 1 to Rosh HaShanah is clear: Repent before Rosh HaShanah. Don't wait until after Rosh HaShanah, or you will find yourself in the Days of Awe.
There are idioms or phrases that help us identify the days in the season of Teshuvah (repentance). Just as unfamiliar foreigners may be confused when they hear Americans call Thanksgiving Day, "Turkey Day" or "Pilgrims' Day," non-Jewish believers in Yeshua( Jesus)can be confused by the different terms for the major feasts of the L-rd.

Rosh HaShanah: Names, Themes, and Idioms
[ol][*]Teshuvah (repentance) [*]Rosh HaShanah (Head of the Year, Birthday of the World) ( God Created the World on this month)[*]Yom Teruah (the Day of the Awakening Blast [Feast of Trumpets) [*]Yom HaDin (the Day of Judgment) [*]HaMelech (the Coronation of the Messiah) [*]Yom HaZikkaron (the Day of Remembrance or memorial) [*]The time of Jacob's (Ya'akov) trouble (the birthpangs of the Messiah, Chevlai shel Mashiach)( Known In the church as the Tribulation days)[*]The opening of the gates [*]Kiddushin/Nesu'in (the wedding ceremony) [*]The resurrection of the dead (rapture, natza1) [*]The last trump (shofar) [*]Yom Hakeseh[/b] (the hidden day)[*]so following the Jewish Holiday time line the resurrection of the dead occurs on the last trumpet of Roshashanah, Hebrew scholars for thousands of years has called roshashana the day that no one knows when it begins. Since Roshashanah is followed on the Jewish calendar in the old days no one knew when it would begin it was a secret day.[/ol]
The High priest would post watchman on the towers of the Temple in Jerusalem as soon as they saw the New moon rise they would sound the Shoffars, these were called the minor shoffar or the first shoffar, then a series of sounding trumpets would follow during this mystery holiday, until 40 days later the last Trumpet would sound closing this Holiday.

Jesus in his life on earth fulfilled all the feasts in the old testament on his own life and ministry, the only one he did not fulfilled was Roshashanah, it is still pending for fulfillment in the nera future it could be only days away on this Roshashanah

Paul Knew all this Jewish Traditions and commanded feasts and what they meant he said;

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet( Roshashanah); for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
- 1 Corinthians 15:51- 52

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
39[/color]40For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
47[color=red]48For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Yom Hakeseh[/b] (the hidden day)
And Jesus Said , "no One Knows the day Or the hour Not even the angels of heaven, except my father in Heaven."
so in fact when Jesus said that to His Hebrew Disciples noticed they didn't ask questions because they understood what the hidden day was.

It is like if I walk up to anybody and i say What's up ? you already would know because of american idiom ,I mean, what is happening or how are you, or what is going on?
When you say to a Hebrew in Hebrew ,"the Hidden day"he knows it is Yom hakeseh or Roshashanah. The feast of trumpets in your english old testament.

Hope Now those Hebrew scriptures make more sense to you.

[Rebel Hog]

When the day comes, it comes, and I know I am ready.
I ask all my brothers are you ready to accept our Lord?

[Rebel Hog]

Matthew 24:3-14:
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Brothers rejoice and be ready, if theres aything or somethings you have'nt done yet in the name of the Lord, don't wait till it's to late,for these things mentioned are being wittnessed to day!

[DaveH]

Thanks for your insights Alex. You have been a blessing to this forum.

I have always been taught (and still believe) that no one knows the day or the hour when Christ will return because Jesus said so. I am not sure I understand the analogy you offered at the end explaining how it meant something different? I will be the first to say that no one but the Father knows when Jesus is coming, but the times certainly point to it being very, very close. It could be any day--including Oct the 4th. I know people who feel that something very significant will occur on the 4th this year --whether or not it is Christ's return is debateable. Like Reb, I plan to be ready whether He comes back then or not.

[Alex The Hawk]

Yes Dave it is difficult to understand when you being taught something all your life.

I believe that is why God is raising these last days an army of messianics which are explaining the word as it was meant to be understood.

The New testament is a Hebrew Jewish Books, who better to understand the idioms and idiocyncracies of the Jews but a jew, who believes jesus is the messiah.

A lot was lost from the first church which was entirely Jewish, when the catholics decided to separate the church into a gentile institution and added many pagan teachings and rituals.

Then all those things that Christ came to teach and those that point to Christ Ministry and reign were taken out, Many of the evangelical Churches still continue to practice such things.

The Jewish feasts and holidays all point to Christ Roshashanah in particular points to his coming and the resurrection of the dead, so we know his coming will be on Roshashanah 1 tess chapter 4 and the resurrection of the dead.

If you take out the Jewish meanings of the Bible then you end up with what we have today, a free for all teaching and apostasy.

Shalom, (peace)