What the BIBLE says about the Rapture!

Goose 11 · 08-29-2005, 08:04 AM

I have recieved alot of PM's and eimail about this topic, there are many out there who don't understand this doctrine or the purpose for it. I do not have any confidence in the idea put forth by this doctrine because it contradicts too many other scriptures. I know some on here do believe in the theory of the "rapture",so I'm posting this both with respect of them, their faith,and their sincerity. But also withthe hope of helping to cease the confusion this doctrine causes.

The term Rapture stands for the so-called coming of a millennial reign of Christ on earth. The word Rapture comes from the Latin, RAPARE, which means to "take away" or "snatch out." The theory that is directly associated with It is taught by many, that Christ at his second coming will silently remove from this world the righteous - and this just before a terrible tribulation shall take place on the earth. This alarmist doctrine portrays quite a drama. Families will be shocked by the strange disappearance of a mother, father, or child. Driverless cars will collide in streets. A man and wife are in bed; she hears a noise, turns her head, and he is gone. Planes crash with no pilots found. The theorist continues by stating that the tribulation on earth will last for seven years during which time the Lord will pour out His wrath upon all those who have rejected Him. At the end of the tribulation, they say, the Lord will return to the earth with ten thousand of His saints and a great battle will be fought. They add that Christ and His army will be victorious and will then execute judgment on the ungodly. Then, according to the theory, the Lord will usher in His Kingdom, an earthly reign of Christ on earth which shall last for 1,000 years.
The conclusion of this suggested millennium will pose another great battle. This is supposed to involve a last-ditch effort of evil against good - to no avail, of course. Then they affirm that a second resurrection will-take place; and all who remain from the time of Adam will be raised and shall receive their justice. Let us see what the Bible says regarding the truth of our Lord's return. (We do invite you to write down the following references.)
First, the word Rapture is not even to be found in the Bible; Nor is this doctrine taught there.
Second, the Lord's return will not be secretive or silent. Revelation 1:7 states that, "every eye shall see him', 1 Thessalonians 4:16, says that His coming will be announced with, "a shout', with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God".
Third, the "tribulation" often referred to is based upon an erroneous interpretation of Matthew 24. This "tribulation' was associated with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 according to the first question the Lord answered in Matthew 24:1-3. That "tribulation" did in fact come before that generation passed, Matthew 24:34.
Fourth, according to the Bible there is but one resurrection and that will include both the good and evil. John 5:28-29, states, "all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth".
Fifth, based upon the Bible, Christ's Kingdom is not future. It has already been in existence for nearly 2000 years and it is a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly one. Jesus stated it in John 18:36 "My kingdom is not of this world." Christ promised Peter in Matthew 16:18-19, that he could open the doors of the kingdom, and this the apostle exercised in Acts 2:38-47. John, the apostle, stated in Revelation 1:9 that he was "in the Kingdom". Now all of these books were written in the First Century and the kingdom was spoken of as existing then. Mark 9:1 is a passage that definitely puts the beginning of the kingdom in that generation. Last, the idea of a thousand year reign of Christ on earth is a gross distortion of Revelation 20:1-7. This is a highly figurative context within a very symbolic book. The reign viewed in Revelation 20 is not an "earthly" reign of the Lord at all. It is a spiritual reign with victorious saints (Revelation 20:4). In Revelation 6:9-11 these martyred souls were, "underneath the altar", crying for vindication; in Chapter 20, however, they were on, "thrones reigning with their Lord." This was a prophetic indication that Christianity would be triumphant over its enemies. The 1,000 years is likely a symbol of the completeness of that victory. The number 1,000 is used more than 20 times in the book of Revelation, but not in a literal sense. The whole concept of the so-called Rapture contradicts tons of extremely clear Bible passages.

08-29-2005, 08:11 AM

Could you point me to where it says "ten thousand of his saints" and what bible version. Also maybe it would be helpful for me to read where the tribulation will last 7 years. I appreciate it.

Chuck7 · 08-29-2005, 08:12 AM

Mr. Goose ,
I do not agree with you. I hope you are ok with that. I love you in the Lord and believe one day we will hunt togeter. If not this year sometime. I like you alot. Have a real good day. On ething for sure we agree on." Striving to keep the bond of peace."
Peace my brother,
Chuck

Chuck7 · 08-29-2005, 08:14 AM

Big Country,
What's up brother. Keep on keeping on man. Let the Word of God saturate your life brother.You can't get too much of the Word.
Love Y a,
CHuck

Rebel Hog · 08-29-2005, 08:39 AM

RAPTURE

I. Biblical usage of the word "rapture"
A. The Bible does not use the word "rapture"
1. Not found in Biblical concordance
2. Not found in Biblical dictionaries or encyclopedias
B. English word "rapture" derived from Latin word rapio (rapere, raptus)
1. Meaning: to carry away, to be caught up, to snatch, seize, pluck, drag away, carry off, abduct, plunder, ravish, rape
2. English word "rape" derived from this Latin root
C. English usage of word "rapture"
1. General usage: "carried away with emotion, ecstasy, passion"
2. Theological usage: "caught up in clouds to meet the Lord"
a. Recent theological origin
(1) Emphasized in premillennial/dispensational theology since middle of nineteenth century
(2) Not found as definition in Webster's Collegiate Dict.
b. Questionable choice of English word as equivalence for Biblical reference.
D. Singular Biblical passage that refers to being "caught up" at end time.
1. I Thess. 4:17 - "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..."
2. Greek word for "caught up" is harpazo - used 13 times in N.T.
a. translated "snatch" - Matt. 13:19; Jn. 10:12,28,29; Acts 8:39; Jude 23
b. translated "take by force" - Matt. 11:12; Jn. 6:15; Acts 23:10
c. translated "caught up"- II Cor. 12:2,4; I Thess 4:17; Rev. 12:5
3. Contextual interpretation of I Thess. 4:13-18
a. Not an attempt to outline sequential events of final times
b. Context of concern, consolation, condolence, comfort
c. Paul explains
(1) the hope (confident expectation) of the Christian
(2) the resurrection of the body of the Christian
(3) the equal opportunity of those who have died and those who remain
(4) those remaining alive are "caught up"
(5) the comfort that Christians have in these realities
II. "Rapture" in premillennial/dispensational eschatology and theology
A. The "catching up" of believers, the Church, was separated in time from the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to earth in the teaching of the Plymouth Brethren of Britain, creating a two-phase Second Coming of Christ.
1. Rapture - Jesus' coming for His saints
2. Revelation - Jesus' coming with His saints
B. Illustrations

C. History of this interpretation
1. Margaret MacDonald (1830) - personal prophecy in Glasgow
2. Edward Irving (1832) - Scottish charismatic preacher
3. John Nelson Darby - Irish lawyer and Plymouth Brethren leader
4. James H. Brookes - American Presbyterian preacher
5. Dwight L. Moody - Moody Bible Institute
6. C.I. Scofield - Scofield Bible
7. Dallas Theological Seminary (Chafer, Ironside, Ryrie, Walvoord)
8. Hal Lindsey - Late, Great Planet Earth
9. Popular interpretation of fundamentalist evangelicals
D. Variant opinions of the time of "rapture" among premillennialists
1. Pre-tribulation rapture - church removed from tribulation
2. Mid-tribulation rapture - church removed prior to severe tribulation
3. Pre-wrath rapture - (variant of mid-tribulation rapture)
4. Post-tribulation rapture - church endures tribulation
5. Partial tribulation - faithful remnant of Christians removed at beginning of tribulation; others removed later
E. Elements of "rapture" in pretribulation, premillennial dispensationalism
1. Two-phase second-coming
2. Imminence - any time, any moment, soon coming
3. Silent, secret, invisible disappearance of Christians
III. Concluding observations concerning the "rapture"
A. Affirming the reality of being "caught up with Christ" (I Thess. 4:17)
1. Semantic irrelevance of using the word "rapture"
2. Maintaining the hope of Christ's return
B. Questioning the elements of pretribulational premillennial "rapture"
1. Inadequate basis for two-phase Second Coming
a. "caught up," "meet," descend" same time period
b. final judgment
2. Inadequate basis for imminence of expectation
a. His return is impending
b. His return will be sudden, unannounced
c. Christians are to be expectant, prepared, waiting and watching
3. Inadequate basis for secret rapture
a. His return will be public
b. His return will be visible
4. Inadequate basis for silent rapture
a. His return will be with shout
b. His return will be with trumpet
5. Improper claims of new revelation
C. Avoiding the effects of pretribulational premillennial "rapture"
1. divisiveness, intolerance, disunity
2. arrogance, pride, superiority, gnosticism
3. escapist mentality, avoidance, withdrawal
4. negative attitude toward society; disengaged
5. inadequate ecclesiology; ghetto mentality; church relegated to tossing out life-savers

Rebel Hog · 08-29-2005, 08:44 AM

RESURRECTION IN MATT 24??? When Jesus returns....Not in My Bible! But that is what I have been told by some followers of the incorrect views of the rapture.
Where is the resurrection in Matthew 24? There is clearly no resurrection in Matthew 24...in fact if you look at Matt 25 you will see a separation of Sheep and goats rather than a resurrection. Matthew chapter 25 follows right after Matthew 24 and should not be ignored OR 'ignored by spiritualization'.
Matthew 25
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Notice that after Jesus returns in Matthew 24 there is a sheep and goat separation in Matthew 25. This is not necessary if the rapture happens according to the post trib view. The separation would have already occurred at the rapture. There is no problem with the pre-trib view as the rapture would have happened before Daniel's 70th week and the separation of the survivors of the Tribulation in Matt 25 makes perfect sense.
Another point is if the resurrection occurs in Matthew 24 they why bother separating the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25..the rapture would have done that? To have a resurrection in Matthew 24 just doesn't make sense or line up with the Bible OR Matthew 25.
Another thing I have been told is that the elect in Matthew 24 are the Church. Where does it say the elect He gathers are the Church in Matthew 24 and not tribulation saints or Israel? Some claim the term 'the elect' only refers to the Church. They are probably the same ones who claim all the last trumpets are the same. The elect can be Israel, or the tribulation saints, or the Church.

Rebel Hog · 08-29-2005, 08:48 AM

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 which says:

[blockquote][align=left]"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Acts 8:39[/align][align=left][39] And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.[/align][/blockquote]

[blockquote]

John6:40
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.[/blockquote]
[blockquote]11Cor.12:2,4
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

[align=left]
[/align][align=left][/align][/blockquote]

Snooky · 08-29-2005, 09:06 AM

Goose; You should find out what is taught about a subject before you publish a statement concerning what is taught and believed by others.Just a few things that need adressed are listed here. Compare with your "what others believe" statements.

Rapture has nothing to do with the 1000 years as you claim.
It will come as siliently as the sounding of the trumpet.
Does not take place before tribulation.
Takes place before the wrath of God.
Tribulation and wrath do not overlap in time.
Saints are caught away after the tribulation.
Saints do not return with Christ at the end of the tribulation.

I know from past posts that you think one is confused because of believing that the New Testament version of the revelations of the End of Time and the Old Testament version of the same end of time,must work together in harmony without contridtion.
Remember your reply concerning Daniel 7?? I think it went something along these lines--Revelations is interpreted by Revelations and not the book of Daniel. Mixing the two will cause confusion.
God is not the author of confusion. When we get the understanding of the scripture, the Old Testament version and the New Testament version will be in perfect harmony. This comes back to the old argument as to wheather ALL scripture is in fact given of God. Does Gods word stand on its own or, does it need our help to explain what God was really trying to tell us?

Chuck7 · 08-29-2005, 09:18 AM

When we get the understanding of the scripture, the Old Testament version and the New Testament version will be in perfect harmony. This comes back to the old argument as to wheather ALL scripture is in fact given of God. Does Gods word stand on its own or, does it need our help to explain what God was really trying to tell us?
Quote by Snooky,

Yes ,I am seeing lots of good ole New Testament theology in the book of Isaiah as well. "Jesus ,the same yesterday , today and forever.."
Peace,
Chuck

Rebel Hog · 08-29-2005, 09:50 AM

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. (Romans 14.1-5).