Ifferd, I don't think folks should handle snakes today. There are people that will try and use Mark 16 to justify spiritual gifts being present today--except most will leave the part about handling snakes out of it.
My point is that is you take those verses to "proove" the gifts exist today, you have to take all of it--you can't just take the parts you want and leave the rest. If you believe that spiritual gifts are with us now to confirm the Word, as Mark recorded, then you have to believe that people should also take up serpents and NO HARM will come to them. If they are harmed, then something is wrong.
As I said before, that is one gift that cannot be faked, nobody can brainwash you into, or you cannot make yourself believe to the point that it will be true. If someone gets bitten, and ANY harm comes to them, then that should tell us something. No harm means just that--no harm whatsoever. No bite marks, not poisoning, nothing. It doesn't mean they will survive a bite, it means no harm whatsoever will occur.
Christ Himself spoke these words, and he didn't place any type of standard for one or the other, nor did he differentiate in any way taking up serpents and the other gifts--it's either all or none. He didn't say that one would occur more often than another, He didn't say that all would carry on except the handling of serpents--there is simply no scriptural reason to discard the words of Christ concerning taking up serpents.
If the gifts listed in Mark 16 are still with us, then there should be plenty of evidence of these signs still occuring, including the taking up of serpents, to confirm the word after a service. If one sign to confirm the word has passed, why would the rest still be with us? It makes no sense, either logical or scriptural.
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Snake handling for the sake of snake handling is a temptation of God and therefore wrong.
I agree--that's not what I was talking about, and it isn't what Christ said either. He said it would be one of the signs used to confirm the Word. I didn't say it, Christ did, and Mark recorded it. I don't see how it could be any plainer.
Again, I don't think anyone should be handling snakes. I don't think anyone can use Mark 16 to defend the presence of spiritual gifts and signs today either. They simply cannot if they leave the scripture as it is.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
The so called miracle in being able to handle a snake without being bitten is not a miracle, a true miracle would be when one is bitten and there is no sign of him ever being bitten, just like Paul when he was bit and should have fell dead, but he did'nt and he shook it off in the fire. A true miracle would be getting bit with no effects on the one bitten. I don't know of anyone capable of doing that today.
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THE NRA, WHERE WOULD YOU AS A GUN-OWNER BE WITHOUT THEM.
GUN-OWNERS, UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.
Bro Strut; You have exposed the problem with many of our discussions that take place on this board. You don't know anyone capable of doing that today. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds. Men are not the ones that do things brother, it is God that does things through men whom he choses to use. Read the book of Acts and you will see that the Apostles denied doing anything by their own power and rather gave the credit to God where it belonged. Men who have never seen or experienced the It is IMOmoving of the Holy Ghost in their lives think that God just hands out gifts to men to use as they see fit. That is never the case. They operate only as God directs them. There are men who make their living handling serpents and the don't attend church and religion plays no part in their jobs. I have never seen God tell anyone to take up a serpent and don't really expect to ever see it happen, but it could happen. The only biblical example was Paul who picked up the viper by accident. Those who say that the early church handled serpents and drank deadly poison to convince the unbelievers are blowing smoke as they don't have one scripture and no historical records to show where even one time these things were done. They also fail to produce a second scriptural witness to back up their teaching as required by the bible. It is IMO an attempt to belittle and discredit those who believe in receiving the Holy Ghost today as they did in the early days of the New Testament Church.
They also fail to produce a second scriptural witness to back up their teaching as required by the bible. It is IMO an attempt to belittle and discredit those who believe in receiving the Holy Ghost today as they did in the early days of the New Testament Church.
I agree Snooky, . . .that and/or doctrinal blindness. I don't let it bother me tho, mens opinions pale when the Holy Ghostand the word of God testifythe truth that is in us. . .we're never told that we must convince anyone, just that we tell them. I totally agree with you in that we are not being told to handle snakes as a rite at all, but that God will work on our behalf as He did for Paul with the one example that we have. Rather than speaking where the bible is silent. we must go by what is given to us in scripture as a whole.Often these discussions become a desperate attempt to prove a doctrine and no amount of reason or even scripture will change anything.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Those who say that the early church handled serpents and drank deadly poison to convince the unbelievers are blowing smoke as they don't have one scripture and no historical records to show where even one time these things were done. They also fail to produce a second scriptural witness to back up their teaching as required by the bible.
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Rather than speaking where the bible is silent.
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I totally agree with you in that we are not being told to handle snakes as a rite at all,
Christ said "if" they drink any deadly thing. That was not given as a certainty, but a possibility.
Christ said they "shall" take up serpents. Either a command or a statement of certainty. If that is not what He meant, what did He mean? You will have to apply the exact same thing to the other signs listed as well.
Mark recorded that they went "everywhere", and the signs followed.
Do you even realize that you are implying that either Christ or Mark is a liar or thatChrist's words mean nothing if they are only recorded as being said once???? You are implying that the Bible is NOT perfect, because according to you it contains a false statement.
It's not speaking where the Bible is silent--Christ said it, period. Believe it or reject it, that is up to the individual. Do you look up every verse that is only penned once and discard it as false? With the verses about having one or two witnesses, two of those were about accusing a person--they had nothing to do with scripture. That left only one concerning scripture (before the written word was available as a guide). Since there was only one, how can you refer to that as a reliable source (using your own standards)?
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17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
I'll ask again--if Christ didn't mean what He said, just what did He mean? I much rather rely on the word of God thanemotions.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
OK name someone that can be bit by a rattler or cotton mouth or any other deadly snake and not show the effects of it like Paul, whether it is God, The Spirit or what ever protecting them from the bite, I don't know of anyone that is able, thru the Spirit or anything else that can show such results do you?
__________________
THE NRA, WHERE WOULD YOU AS A GUN-OWNER BE WITHOUT THEM.
GUN-OWNERS, UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.
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