There are a few church around I have been to one that handel snake in there sevice as proof of the Bible verse in Mark .. To me this is tempting God and the Bible teaches not to tempte the Lord. How do you feel the Bible does say both. I for one will not tempt the Lord by handling poison snake. they use copper heads and rattle snakes. By the way I did not stay for the service and wont return.
I don't know Renfrow, I have been kinda studying on it. The bible does say "these sign shall follow those that believe". The thing is tho that we have no scripture in the bible that shows that the church in the beggining made a practice of doing this. There is only one reference to this and it was a thing of happenstance. However , be that as it may, . .I have no problem with the churches that chose to do this.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mark 16:17&18 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
This has been a big point of contention between those that believe "that which is perfect" has come, and those that do not.Those whobelieve the written Word is what was referred to as perfect, and the time of miracles performed through humans has ceased, generally have no problems at all with these verses.
On the other hand, those that don't feel that way seem to have more problems with it, especially the part about handling serpents. Evidently this practice requires more faith than healing or speaking in tongues! (a little humor there folks--don't come unglued)
There's one thing that would be difficult to fake here--"it shall not hurt them". I've never seen or heard of anyone that was bitten by a poisonous snake, in a religious ceremony or otherwise, that wasn't hurt by it. I've never seen anyone purposely drink poison, but my guess is the end results would be the same.
Notice two things about these verses: first, these are the words of Christ himself, so it can't be brushed off as an opinion.
Second, notice the wording: they SHALL take up serpents--just like they SHALL cast out demons, and SHALL speak in new tongues, and SHALL lay hands on the sick, and the sick SHALL recover. Each one is given just as much importance as the other. None of them happen accidently or by chance. The only "if" is concerning drinking poison. The laying on of hands and healing is given as a certainty also--not by chance, not depending on the faith of the one being healed--they SHALL recover, period. That is one thing I havea problem with--if there are those with a gift of healing today, why are they not in the children's hospitals using that gift?
Obedience to a command is not tempting God. If you believe in doing one of these things, why would you not believe in the other? On the other hand, if you get bitten and hurt from it, then you know one of two things--either you don't believe, or you are reading this verse in the wrong context. There is no mention of a certain level of faith required here--the signs will follow "them that believe". Not the preachers that believe, not the elders that believe, not those that have been going to church for fifty years--there is only one requirement for these signs to follow. If these gifts are still with us, then everyone that believes would be healing, speaking in tongues, casting out demons, and handling serpents.
That's how I see it anyway. I don't doubt the faith of anyone that won't grab a rattler and start playing with it--I call that just plain common sense.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
If you remmger last year here in rosehill va. the pastor of one of these churchs was bitten and refuse to go hosp. he said God would take care of it I know his son that is how I know and he died in the night. He and his father were both pastor of the same church his father die the same way now is son has taking over and is leading the church ? are they tempting God or was it time to go home and be with God.
Chad,
If I don't have enough faith not to say no to pizza after the 3rd piece. I surely ain't going to try the snake thing.
I would like to comment on your post brother. This is how I look at the gifts for today. It may vary from others. I see my normal walk as { as guided by my conscience which is being sanctified by the Word of God} I still war with my flesh and at the Pizza Hut I give into my flesh.
My sanctified coscience or the Holy Spirit working together { that I must admit I'm a little confused} brings scriptures to my memory 24/7 in dealing with the issues of life.
But then...there are situations that go beyond the sanctified consciense and is a word from the Lord. Example In 1977 I was at a small prayer meeting. They were discussing should Christians smoke cigarettes or not. Also a girl out there had a dislocated jaw.I felt an unction to leave the folks praying and go into the bathroom. As soon as I got on my knees I felt a great warm/heat come over me. The Lord spoke inside my heart and told me He is all 9 gifts in one. When a need arises he is all sufficient for the need. Concernng the smoking He told me to quote these verses. 2 Cor.6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
After I quoted them they DID NOT RECIEVE THEM. Then I felt led to pray for the ladies jaw. She was healed instantly.
Concerning the snakes. I will not tempt God. If I get bitten this year I am believing God not to die.
Within myself Chad, I am powerless, but...if the need lends itself I will stand on God's Word. If my situation looks grim..I'll be dialing 911.I'm not too proud to go to a doctor.
Chuck
My brother's father in law used to be into it. I never seen any good coming out of it or any praise to God. He got bit twice and put family thru alot of misery cause he refused to go to the hospital. Then about died, and doctors saved him. Then went back for some more years later. Everyone I know that particpates in this and drinking of poison are a tad off their rockers. Some talk to themselves or see them urinated on themselves walking down the holler.
I have just seen alot of bad come from it. Nothing positive. Only thing I could even fathom being positive is you proving to God that you have enough faith in him to hold a dangerous snake and know it won't hurt you. If that is so, thats alot of faith. Which I admit is more than I have. I wish I knew the answer.
I wish I knew the answer to all the questions that separate us Christians.
Should we have musical instruments in church?
Should a women never cut her hair
Should a women only wear dresses, never pants
Should we speak in tongues
Should we be conservative and low key in church or should we be dancin and jumping pews.
Everybody has there angle. I figure the Good Lord will reveal what he wants from me if I pray and live life for him.
I wish I knew the answer to all the questions that separate us Christians.
Should we have musical instruments in church?
Should a women never cut her hair
Should a women only wear dresses, never pants
Should we speak in tongues
Should we be conservative and low key in church or should we be dancin and jumping pews.
Everybody has there angle. I figure the Good Lord will reveal what he wants from me if I pray and live life for him.
are they tempting God or was it time to go home and be with God.
Well, the verse plainly says no harm will come to them. Since the man died, it should be telling the family and the congregation something. If they can perform one of these acts, they (and every other Christian) should be able to perform them all. God has no limits, but He does stick to His word. We can't pick and choose what parts we want to believe and follow--it's an all or none type deal.
Quote:
If I don't have enough faith not to say no to pizza after the 3rd piece. I surely ain't going to try the snake thing.
That's just it Chuck--there is no mention of a higher level of faith being required--if you believe, these signs will follow, period. If one has the faith to perform a healing, they should have the faith to do all of the things mentioned--there are no levels to these gifts, none placed above another, nothing required for one that is not required for the other. I am glad you have more sense than to grab up a snake though.
Chad
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Chad,
Nothing tricky here brother .. But let me again qualify this again. I have no gifts right now.NONE. However;if get bit by a moccassin this year and if the Holy Spirit comes over me I will live.
My confusing part is why it takes a special visit. I thought he lives inside. That I admit I do not know. I do know I am powerless as I sit here. But if a need arises and I sense His presence great things will happen.
Chuck
If you will compare this passage in Mark with Hebrews 2:3-4, you will see that these miracles were to confirm the Word of God..Jesus's followers had to have some proof that they were preaching God's message so they were given these signs..but now that we have the complete New Test. these signs are no longer needed..if you will read 1 Corin.13:8-10, and listen to what God says and not try and make it say what you want it too, you will plainly see that these signs have ceased..
but praise God we still have faith.hope and charity
yes, i certainly do believe in miracles today but they are not for signs and wonders but God showing us his love..i believe in divine healing but i do not believe there are any divine healers on earth today..only God, the Great Physcian can heal..
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wayne
"There's room at the cross for you."
handling of snakes in church
