I have been thinking about this verse

[mr-pirk]

Ok folks it is time to quit talking amongest ourselves about Taz being fat and get to some bible study.

1 Timothy 5:20-22(New International Version)
20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
21I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.
22Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

I havewondered ifthe word "elect" as it pertains to man is those chosen before man's creation for a purpose. Before ALL creation????
The "elect" will serve God's will and will be saved.

That is the only verse I can think of that applied the word "elect" to angels. I assume that the same will apply to the angels, they were pre-chosen to serve God's will and they will be saved.
I use the word "pre-chosen", pre-chosen before what?
Ihave to believe that God fore-saw the fall of Satan as he for-saw the fall of Adam.

I have to assume that the "elect" of the angels was before creation. Do you know of any verses suggesting otherwise?

I know in the back of my brain this question is answered in the bible I just can't put my finger on where, as far as man is concerned.

The word "elect" as it applies to man, does it mean everyone who will be saved, or....

Can it be understood to be those who have been specialy choosen for a job or time to live in todo God's will and be usefull in saving the rest of us?

Do you know of any verses that might indicate how the word
"elect" applies to angels?
Are all angels besides those who fell with Satan "elect"?

I keep thinking about the song of Deborah when I ponder this;
Judges 5:20(New International Version)
20 From the heavens the stars fought,
from their courses they fought against Sisera.

I find the song of Deborah to be very insightful, I find it to be much more than a simple song talking about the then current events that occured that it is written about.
I can't help but feel it has a deeper meaning, much like many Psalms concerned the current events of David's lifetime as well as future events.
I get the impression that the Song of Deborah also concerns the events surrounding the falling of Satan.

Any thoughts or opinions on these musings?

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

[Rebel Hog]

Questioner
I was somewhat confused by the answer you gave to the person who asked you the question about fallen angels. You go on to state that God literally "elected" who was going to be saved and who was not, including the angels. What kind of God would he be if he actually chose for us? With that being said, were does freewill come in? Or what would be the profit for us to have been givenfreewill.

Answer

No one has true "freewill" except God Himself, for only God can do what He pleases. The "freewill" of men and angels is always subject to God's sovereignty and His divine freewill. God let's each man and woman chose whether they will be obedient to Him or not. Every man and woman from the beginning of creation chose to reject God by their sins, thus all of them were condemned to eternal judgment.

God knew that all mankind would use their "limited" freewill to reject Him and His Savior and would have been justified to let each one be born, live, die and thrown into the eternal torments of Hell and the Lake of Fire. However, God the Father had decided to give a "Love Gift" to the God the Son--Jesus Christ and that gift was a race of people (His Bride)who would love and adore Jesus for all of eternity, and mankind's refusal to be the Bride of Christ was not acceptable to God the Father who does what He wants. So God the Father sovereignly chose "some" of sinful mankind to be saved. He was under no obligation to choose (elect) everyone for salvation.

Note that God did not "elect" any one to go to Hell, He only elected those who He would give the "free gift" of salvation to. The rest were simply left with their freewill choice of their rejection of God and His Savior and thus would have no excuse for being punished eternally, for they got what they wanted.

Now, for the "elect," who were given the free gift of faith, they profit greatly knowing that they have escaped eternal punishment that they rightly deserved because of the mercy and grace of God, and they will be eternally grateful.

[mr-pirk]

Rebel Hog I understand about free-will.
I understand God is boss.

The word "elect" does it apply to ALL who are saved? or....
Does the word "elect" apply to those who are chosen to save the rest of mankind?

Can the word "elect" be applied to angels in either sense of the word? Or is it something different concerning angels?

Canthere angels who will be "saved" by actions taken/performed after the fall of Satan?

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

1st Edit Rebel Hog we were posting at the same time.... I will study your last post

2nd Edit Rebel Hog I have read your last post again, I thought it was a new post when I saw the word "edited", I knew my first reading of it I didn't see that word at the bottom of it, so I assumed it was a new post.
Rebel Hog I think I must have missed the points of the post, sorry. I maybe just extra dense tonight.

[Rebel Hog]

Bro.Pirk, maybe I don't really understand the question?



The "all" are the Christians. Now, before you toss this paper aside, please try to be open-minded. I will prove that the "all" in at least three important verses that deal with salvation means the Christians. To do so, I would like to examine 2 Cor. 5:14, 1 Cor. 15:22, and then Rom. 5:18 where the word "all" is used in a way that can only mean the elect.

2Cor.5:14
[14] For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead.
1Cor.15:22
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Rom.5:18
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

[mr-pirk]

Rebel Hog, bless your heart. I see we aren't quite connecting tonight, I will try again tommorow.

I am trying to figure out the word "elect" in any-way that it can biblicaly be read as it pertains to mankind and angels.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

[Goose 11]

The english "elect" derives from a compound greek term, eklektos (ek - "out of", and lego - "to gather"). It suggests the idea of being selected or chosen. It is used in several senses in the N.T. (a) The nation of Israel was elected by God to be the instrument through which Christ would come to earth (Deut. 7:6; Isa. 45:4). (b) Jesus was God's chosen for the implementation of the plan of redemption (1 Peter 2:4, 6). (c) Angels are elect in that they are used for certain roles in God's providental plan (1 Tim. 5:21). (d) Christians are frequently referred to as God's elect or chosen (Mat. 24:22; Rm. 8:33; Col. 3:12; 2 Tim. 2:10). This does not mean that each child of God was specifically chosen "before the foundation of the world" for salvation while others were arbitrarily predestined for condemnation - as calvinism contends. It is absurd to argue that God would commision the gospel to be "preached to "every creature under heaven" when supposedly, a vast number had been chosen already for eternal damnation! The truth is that God chose a "type" of person, the one who is obedient in disposition, who would himself determine to enter the "in Christ" relationship (see Ephesians 1:4 "chose us in Him") by obedience to the truth (Rom. 6:3-4; Gal. 3:26-27). Personal acceptance of the gospel, or thrusting it away, determines who the elect are. A person judges himself worthy or unworthy, of eternal life (See Acts 13:46).

I used this paragraph fromthe writings of Wayne Jackson, (a preacher from California). He states what I believe to be the truth about the word "elect".
Trae

[Tazman]

Personal acceptance of the gospel, or thrusting it away, determines who the elect are.

This one line sums it up quite nicely Brother Trae.

[Rebel Hog]

His question is:

I am trying to figure out the word "elect" in any-way that it can biblicaly be read as it pertains to mankind and angels.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

[motor]

"I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." 1 Tim.5:21 KJV.

"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Mark.13:27

The Elect is based on God's foreknowledgefrom the beginning..
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." 1 Peter 1:2

[mr-pirk]

Goose you have shown what I am after, Thanks.

Thanks to everyone.
Mr-Pirk