That which is perfect, again...

etothepii · 08-08-2005, 01:13 PM

Some thoughts on the subject...

Two sides of the argument:"That which is perfect"refers to God's Word, or it refers to Christ's second coming.

To add to the confusion, Christ is the word.

When this scripture was written, which of the two options were yet to come? Christ had already come, and he yet lived, albeit in heaven. What about the Word?

We are told bluntly that the Word existed since the beginning. In the beginning was the Word. The Word didn't "come" when the Bible was written. It didn't "come" when Paul wrote his letters, etc. It already existed! The Word is God's perfect plan. The plan was made in the beginning.

Sorry to sound so confused here. I know both sides of the coin are represented here. Input would be nice -- a fight, not so nice...

Chuck7 · 08-08-2005, 01:17 PM

Jim ,
I' believe it was talking about the 2nd coming of Christ. For us who believe that, I believe it opens up opportunities. Some may say hey but God is not a respector of persons. And I would say hey...All things are available to him who believeth. You will get what you believe you will get.
Love ya,
Chuck

Rebel Hog · 08-08-2005, 01:42 PM

The apostle Paul was a brave man (see Paul's First Missionary Journey, Paul's Second Missionary Journey and Paul's Third Missionary Journey), not only for the things that he did in his time, but for the things that he said, and wrote, for all time. Brave, and honest - to others, and to himself.
Almighty God is perfect. The Words of God are perfect. Jesus Christ is perfect. The Holy Bible is perfect. But, because humans are not perfect, our translations and understanding of all that was originally written is not perfect either. If it were, everyone with the Ears To Hear would completely agree with the full meaning of every verse. As it is, human reasoning, which is largely based upon our own personal experiences and situation, often makes up the shortfall, hence all of the different, and usually self-accommodating, interpretations and beliefs.

Leafrivermac · 08-08-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

We are told bluntly that the Word existed since the beginning. In the beginning was the Word. The Word didn't "come" when the Bible was written. It didn't "come" when Paul wrote his letters, etc. It already existed! The Word is God's perfect plan. The plan was made in the beginning.

That is an excellent point Eto. The Word was in the beginning and it was made flesh. The Word was already come at the time these words were penned : 1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Also when you look at scripture as far as the word "perfect" is concerned you will see that Noah was "perfect" in his generations (Gen 6:9), Abraham was commanded to be "perfect" (Gen 17:1), Just weights and measures were considered "perfect" (Deu 25:15), God's, work and judgment is "perfect", (Deu 32:4), God's ways are "perfect" (2Sa 22:31), our hearts are to be" perfect", (1 Kings 8:61), Asa's heart was "perfect"(1Kngs 15:4)," perfect gold" (2Ch 4:21), Job was "perfect" (Job 1:1), He destroys the "perfect" and the wicked (Job 9:22), etc etc.
We are commanded in Mat 5:48, to be" perfect", even as our Father in heaven is "perfect". And Jesus is " that which is perfect " that will come. Also . . .How can one say that it's the written New Testament that is "that which is perfect", not only as Eto pointed out that the "word" was made flesh and walked among us. . .and He was "perfect", BUT . .in Psalms 19:7 we see that the "LAW" was also considered perfect: Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
There are are some beliefs that absolutley hinge on making the written word of God "that which is perfect" in order to justify denying the power of God and the things of the Spirit. Sure, the word of God is perfect, Old and New Testaments apparently, every aspect of God is perfect including the coming Kingdom of God.

Chuck7 · 08-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Leaf.,
You hit the nail right on the head.

There are are some beliefs that absolutley hinge on making the written word of God "that which is perfect" in order to justify denying the power of God and the things of the Spirit.

BINGO

MOTOWNHONKEY · 08-08-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck7

Jim ,
I' believe it was talking about the 2nd coming of Christ. For us who believe that, I believe it opens up opportunities. Some may say hey but God is not a respector of persons. And I would say hey...All things are available to him who believeth. You will get what you believe you will get.
Love ya,
Chuck

MOTOWNHONKEY · 08-08-2005, 05:40 PM

Chuck I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. " You get what you believe you get." I doubt you mean it like I'm thinking. Can you elaborate please?

Chuck7 · 08-08-2005, 05:59 PM

Chris,
First and foremost ,your friendship means more to me than my interpretation of the scriptures.

This is what I meant. There are folks who say tha twe are in a different dispensation. They deny the gifts spoken in 1 Cor.12. So since they don't believe that I don't believe God will impose the gifts on them. They don't believe.

On the otherhand , some of us believe God can and will do according to our expectations when we pray.. We do not believe in a dispensation. I do not believe in coincidence .

Therefore...folks get according to their faith.
I hope we are still friends. This has been my experience and observation as a Christian.

MOTOWNHONKEY · 08-08-2005, 06:14 PM

Thank you Chuck, I just didn't know what you meant. I believe simular to you as long as what one believes is according to Gods word. For instance, The muslem estremist believe they will get to heaven by bombing, and being marters. I and I am sure you don't think they will get to heaven. Your believes have to line up with Gods word.

mr-pirk · 08-08-2005, 06:51 PM

Eto The Pii " Sorry to sound so confused here ".

Lol now you have me confused.[&:]
It does look like an intresting topic though.

Will youadd a little more information.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk