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Old 08-05-2005, 02:26 PM   #1
 
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Default Denominations and other things

I ran across this article today and thought it rather interesting..it is a rather long read but has some good stuff in it..you may not agree but that's ok, i'm not asking you to, so just read it and think on it.. i very seldom ever cut and paste so forgive for indulging this one time..

[blockquote]
How do you make sense of the different denominations with everybody saying their way is right? Some distinctions to help you avoid quarreling about non-essentials.
[/blockquote]




There are two different issues. First, if Christianity happens to be true in the broader sense, how do you make sense of the different denominations with everybody saying their way is right? Second, what are the basics of Christianity?
With regards to the first question, some people like to overplay this issue. "Five thousand different denominations and everybody claims their way is right." It is true that those who belong to a particular denomination do so because they think the details of the teachings in that denomination are accurate. Who would want to belong to a denomination they thought was teaching falsehood? But this question over-emphasizes the differences.
I found a very helpful metaphor for the person who likes to complain about all the denominations. There are many different baseball teams and each team has a coach. Each coach coaches according to a certain set of principles. Those principles are the ones he thinks are the best for producing the best team. He differs with many coaches with regards to that. He could say that his way is right, but the others think their way is right. The fact is, they are all still playing baseball and they are playing with the same set of fundamental rules. Within the context of those rules, there are a number of variations in emphases and strategies that can be expressed in the way the game is played, but the fundamental game is still the same. Christianity is much like that. There is a fundamental core of beliefs and teachings that identify any particular denomination as being Christian. That is why we call them Christian denominations. It may be that these denominations differ in regards to the finer points--points that may be moot or debatable.
For instance, how do you baptize a person? Do you dip them, do you sprinkle them, or do you fully immerse them? There are different points of view. People have an idea about what is right and they follow that in their particular denomination. Few would say that it really makes a critical difference whether you are dipped, sprinkled or immersed. Most would say that Christianity teaches baptism and that is something we all agree on. Even if you are baptized in a slightly different way, it doesn't mean the baptism doesn't count.
Most of the differences in denominations are similar to this kind of thing. Do you worship on Saturday or on Sunday? In the morning or the evening? Do you use instruments or no instruments? Should you have a choir? Should you teach topically or verse by verse? How do you baptize? What are your particular views about the way salvation is mediated by God? How about the Holy Spirit? Do you speak in tongues or not? These are more peripheral issues to the fundamental superstructure of what C. S. Lewis called "mere Christianity."
When it gets to mere Christianity, the basics and fundamentals are rather few. All Christians agree on the basics and fundamentals. If they don't, they are not called Christians.
By the way, this is what separates Mormons from Christians. Mormons disagree on those fundamental issues and that is why they have to be called something other than Christian.
My point simply is that the variations that people point to are somewhat smaller and incidental and are debatable issues. They aren't the kinds of things that undermine the basic truth claims of Christianity as a whole. The fundamental truth claims of Christianity as a whole are rather basic. Christianity stands or falls on those things, and not on the parochial particulars.
What are the fundamental truth claims of Christianity?
The particulars of mere Christianity entail four basic things:

[ol][*]Your view of God ,[*]your view of creation ,[*]your view of man , and[*]your view of salvation . [/ol]
God Christianity teaches that God is a person. He is both personal and transcendent. In other words, He is personal in that He has a will. He has emotions, after a fashion. He can communicate. He can create. He can do personal activities. He is an individual. But He is distinct from His creation, as opposed to being the same thing as His creation. Therefore, He is transcendent. Yet, He is somehow personally involved in His creation so that He is not isolated or closed out from the universe. He doesn't wind a clock and let it spin out. He is involved. So with regards to God, the fundamental Christian view is that God is a personal being who created the universe as something other than Himself, but who is involved with the universe, too.
You will probably notice by reflecting on this a little bit that we are already making some rather dramatic distinctions between Christianity and other religious viewpoints. For example, the notion that God is personal is in contra-distinction with many eastern world views that say that God is impersonal. To distinguish God from His creation is to distinguish theism from pantheism.

Creation Pantheism says that God and creation are one. God is just all that is. God is the creation. God is the tree, the book, the river, the stone, and He is you and me and everyone else. Christianity would say that's not an accurate view of the world. The truth of the matter is that God is distinct from creation and He existed before anything else did. He created everything else that does exist. That distinguishes Christianity from eastern religions.
Christianity is also distinguished from the philosophies of naturalism and deism. Deism would hold that God created everything but He just wound it all up and is letting it run by itself. He is not intervening in the affairs of men. Naturalism would say that the universe is a closed system of cause and effect. Whether God exists or not is irrelevant because we are stuck with the laws of nature. That is all we can really know and they are the only things that cause anything in the universe right now.
In that regard, Christianity would take exception with eastern religions, naturalism and deism because Christianity says that God is different from his creation but is involved with it. It also would take exception with the view of naturalism saying the only thing that accounts for anything in the universe is natural law.

Man Christianity goes further, though, in what it believes about man. What does the Bible teach about the nature of man? First, it says that man is different than all the rest of the creatures in the world. This would be over and against naturalism and evolution, of course, which teach that man is simply a highly- developed and well-evolved animal.
Man is made in the image of God and that has ramifications. He has a rational soul that has the capability of making moral choices, not just personal choices but moral choices, as well. He can be creative. He can do some of the things that God can do. Because man is made in the image of God, he has a different value than everything else in creation. Therefore, man is separate from the rest of creation in terms of his value. This is why justice is important to men. Man ought not be treated unjustly because he can reason morally, which allows him to make sense of something like justice.
These are things that follow from a Christian world view and don't seem to make a lot of sense in an atheistic world view, or an evolutionary world view, or even an eastern world view. They seem to make sense in a Christian world view. That is why the notion of justice in our country is founded on Judeo-Christianity. That's no accident. Justice relates to the idea that man is a moral creature, made in the image of God and ought to be treated justly.

Salvation There is more, though, that the Christian world view says about the issue of man. It isn't only that man is made in the image of God so that he has a nobility about him, a beauty about him, and he can produce noble works. Something is also broken and twisted in man. He is not only noble, he is desperately fallen. He is broken in some way which is why he can do desperately evil things. Because he does evil, he is guilty before God's tribunal and he is worthy of punishment. God has provided a way for man to escape the punishment and that method of escape comes through God's mercy, expressed in forgiveness, made possible by Jesus.
Who is Jesus? Jesus is a man, but not an ordinary man. He is the incarnation of God Himself. He is a man who is fully God and fully human. As God, He accomplished something that no man could have accomplished--the salvation of mankind. That is why it is necessary for us to put our trust, faith and belief in the God/man Jesus Christ in order for us to be forgiven of our sins and be reconciled with the God who created everything.
That is basic, mere Christianity. A personal God, creating a world other than Himself. He placed man in the world--man who has transcendent value because he was made in the image of God. Man who also, because of his free moral choices, has become desperately evil and is guilty before God. Therefore, God made a way of man's rescue by becoming a man Himself, taking the punishment upon Himself and making it possible for men to be forgiven.
If you take any of those elements out, you don't have Christianity. You have some other religion. It may be a very nice religion, but it is not Christianity.
I will go further. I think the description of the world I just gave you is true. In other words, I think it truly fits the world as it actually is, therefore these other religions--whatever they may be and however nice they may be--are false at the point they depart from the particular world view I just described. Since these items are very fundamental ones, not the parochial particulars that we discussed earlier, any religion that deviates from any one of these critical foundational elements not only is mistaken on that issue, but must offer another alternative world view. A world view that, because they miss the fundamental, must doom the entire world view to error itself.
Some things are more important to be right about than others. I might be wrong about my view of baptism but it isn't going to change my view of the world. But if I am wrong about my view of God, then everything else that is built upon that collapses. I think that is the case with other religions.
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:53 PM   #2
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

Well bro.Wayne, I'm Independent Baptist, non-denominational.

The word "Independent" means that the church is not a member of any council, convention or is a part of any hierarchy outside the local congregation. An Independent Baptist Church would not be apart of a national organization that would exercise authority over the local church. Thus, the name "independent" means that the church patterns itself after the New Testament example and stands alone under the authority of the Bible. Independent churches have no organized organization over them in authority. They direct their own affairs under the authority of the New Testament Scriptures, free from the outside interference. The New Testament teaches that Christ is the head of the church,(Eph. 5:23) and the Chief Shepherd )1 Peter 5:4). The local pastor is the shepherd (Heb. 13:17, Acts 20:28, Eph. 4:11) or leader of the congregation. The Independent Baptist church has a congregational form of government with each member having the right of the vote and all the affairs of the churches are conducted by the local congregation following the guidelines of the New Testament.

My beliefs are:
The three manifistations of God
1.Manifested thru: Creation
2. Manifested thru the Son: in Incarnation
3.Manifested thru the: Holy Ghost.
One God.

Some things are more important to be right about than others. I might be wrong about my view of baptism but it isn't going to change my view of the world. But if I am wrong about my view of God, then everything else that is built upon that collapses. I think that is the case with other religions.

Brother Wayne, do you attend Jordan Baptist in Sanford?
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:00 PM   #3
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

Come on brothren, let's hear!
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Old 08-05-2005, 06:24 PM   #4
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

Quote:
Few would say that it really makes a critical difference whether you are dipped, sprinkled or immersed.
That would be me as one of the few.
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Old 08-05-2005, 07:21 PM   #5
 
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

no, i attend Lighthouse Baptist church. in Lake Mary.it is an Ind. Baptist Church..
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Old 08-05-2005, 09:32 PM   #6
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

quote:

Few would say that it really makes a critical difference whether you are dipped, sprinkled or immersed.

quote:

In the Bible baptism is called a burial. ""we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4). If we want to bury a dead body, we will not sprinkle a little dirt on the head. We will cover the body completely. Baptism is a burial. Sprinkling water on the head of a person does not baptize him. He must be completely buried under the water.
"Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized" (John 3:23). John chose a place to baptize where there was much water. Sprinkling requires only a little water. But a burial in water requires much water. Therefore, John did not baptize by sprinkling. He baptized by burying in water.



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Old 08-06-2005, 06:51 AM   #7
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

[align=center]DENOMINATIONALISM VERSUS
NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY[/align]
Denominationalism conflicts with New Testament teaching on a variety of subjects. Consider New Testament teaching on the subject of the one church. Passages like Isaiah 2:1-5 and Daniel 2:44 predicted that one day God would set up a kingdom, a church, a house"what Isaiah called the "Lord"s house." In Matthew 3:2, John the baptizer preached that people should repent and get ready because the kingdom of heaven was at hand. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my church." In Mark 9:1, He said, "[T]here are some standing here who will not taste of death till they see the kingdom of God come with power." These passages speak of the same institution. In Acts 2, we find the actual establishment of Christ"s church on Earth. Jesus Christ Himself built His church in the city of Jerusalem in approximately A.D. 30 on the day of Pentecost. Its inception is described in Acts 2.

Denominationalism" is "[t]he tendency to separate into religious denominations; sectarianism." Think about these meanings for just a moment. The very word "denomination" means a named or designated division. Denominationalism occurs when religious people and groups divide and segregate themselves on the basis of different designations or church affiliations and different doctrines.
Have you gone to the New Testament and read Jesus" prayer for unity in John chapter 17? There He prayed against religious division, and prayed to God that believers in Christ would be unified! Paul made the same point to the church of Christ in Corinth: "I beseech you brothers by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you" (1 Corinthians 1:10).
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:05 AM   #8
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

Sadly Brother Hog, there have been divisions within the Christain communities, who is to blame? Man! Yes we can only blame ourselves, so many of us, myself included look at different Christian churchs seeking the truth that we feel is right, in some cases a group of like minded people will come together and form thier own independent church and feel they are on the right path, are they? I don't know, that is up to God to determine.

Independent churches whether they choose to acknowledge it or not are a denomination unto their selves even though they do not belong to any other church group, they are still a "division" of Christianity.

Do I feel that God looks upon divisions within Christainity with anger? No, I feel he looks upon them with dissappointment in man, but I also feel that God smiles as he looks down and sees how many continue to seek and find the truth.
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:17 AM   #9
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Default RE: Denominations and other things

Sorry bro Taz, but I believe it a different way.

The Independent Baptist church has a congregational form of government with each member having the right of the vote and all the affairs of the churches are conducted by the local congregation following the guidelines of the New Testament

An Independent Baptist Church would not be apart of a national organization that would exercise authority over the local church. Thus, the name "independent" means that the church patterns itself after the New Testament example and stands alone under the authority of the Bible.

Denominationalism" is "[t]he tendency to separate into religious denominations; sectarianism." Think about these meanings for just a moment. The very word "denomination" means a named or designated division.

Consider New Testament teaching on the subject of the one church. Passages like Isaiah 2:1-5 and Daniel 2:44 predicted that one day God would set up a kingdom, a church, a house"what Isaiah called the "Lord"s house." In Matthew 3:2, John the baptizer preached that people should repent and get ready because the kingdom of heaven was at hand. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my church." In Mark 9:1, He said, "[T]here are some standing here who will not taste of death till they see the kingdom of God come with power."
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:33 AM   #10
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Brother Hog please do not take this wrong, there is not a single church that is not unto itself or with a group of other churches not a division, there are tons of independent churches, there is nothing in the world wrong with them, all of them are trying in their own way to draw closer to what Christ church should be, but every one of them is a division of Christ church even though they do not belong or answer to any other orginization that would make them meet the definition of a denomination.

Brother Hog I am not saying or implying that there is anything wrong with the church you attend, if anything I feel that independent churches are far closer to Christ Church then many others, but there are minor to major differences in every independent church and as with every other church they were formed by man trying to get closer to what will please God.
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