1 Timothy 4:9-10

mr-pirk · 07-30-2005, 06:50 AM

1 Timothy 4:9-10(New International Version)
9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

Any thoughts on why Paul worded this like he did?
Saviorof the non-believer?

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

The Rev · 07-30-2005, 07:25 AM

The Salavation that God has intendfor all men He gives to those who believe. those who do not believe, who fail to approprate the richs of God's grace, will have an eternity to express regrets. By no means do this verse imply, all men will be saved.

Rebel Hog · 07-30-2005, 07:37 AM

Bro.Pirk, the part I'm trying is: Savior of All Men and especiallyof those who believe. Is there a difference?

Leafrivermac · 07-30-2005, 07:42 AM

Hey Mr Pirk, First let me say what Paul is not saying here IMHO, He is not saying that all men would be saved. That would contradict quite a bit of the NT. It would even contradict the first verse of 1Tim 4.
When Paul says that God is the Savior of all men, he is saying that there is no other Savior for the whole of humanity but the one true God of Israel, Our Lord Jesus Christ.
The second thing he"™s saying when he uses that phrase is this: that God is not only the Savior of the Jews, but He is the Savior of the Gentiles"”Gentiles from every tribe, and tongue, and people and nation. That there is a whole world view in God's plan of salvation.
God's saving grace is for all who will believe and His hand is extended to all of mankind.

The Rev · 07-30-2005, 07:55 AM

Great Anwer Leaf... I guess I got too complicated, but that's exactly what I meant!

Leafrivermac · 07-30-2005, 08:01 AM

Lol Rev, I think we said the same thing . . .that should be confirming !![8D]

The Rev · 07-30-2005, 08:08 AM

Yep Leaf we said the same thing. Again my brother I do appologize publicly for including ALL upc as a cult. It was my oversight, like I said in my email to you. I am happy attending a upc church.. I love to get in flow of the Spirit. I love the music, and most of all I love the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.... (wait,,, that's two of em)..

, Now your going to have to be called a twoness! (LOL). You know I am kidding don't you brother,,, I don't want to be like Bro. Reb, that has no sense of humor!

mr-pirk · 07-30-2005, 01:54 PM

Rev and Leaf River Mac you two maybe right, I don't know.
Rebel Hog you and I are running the same rabbit, I look at Paul's letters to the churchs as messages to new believers.
I look at Paul's letters to Timothy as containing food for a mature believer. To me they seem to contain more concepts and thinking of a deeper nature.
I have noted else where about how Paul refers to Jesus in his letters to the churchs as Jesus Christ and then to Timothy he address' it this way Christ Jesus. Is there a reason? I am not sure but he did so a number of times.

Rebel Hog "Bro.Pirk, the part I'm trying is: Savior of All Men and especiallyof those who believe. Is there a difference?"

I have to assume there is a difference or else why word it like he did? This may sound stupid, butI dowonder if Paul worded it like he did to show that all men will be judged but not automaticly condemed if they have not everheard the word of God. Yet to the believer that knows to ask for forgiveness and accepts Jesus as Lord and Savoir and loves his fellow man will not be judged so therefore Jesus is Savior ESPECIALY to the believer?
Just wondering.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

biscuit eater · 07-31-2005, 09:16 PM

Acts 2415And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Mr.Pirk I believe these verses tie in with your post. Why would Paul hope for a resurrection of the unjust if he did not think they could be saved? It looks to me Christ reign is when this will happen.What would have happen to Paul if Christ had not struck him blind on the way to Damascus.Who those unjust could be only God knows.

mr-pirk · 07-31-2005, 09:33 PM

Biscuit Eater thanks for the scripture. Sometimes these rabbits I get to chasing turn out to be wild hares. I haven't been able to sort this one out yet.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk