Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [/align]
I'd like some input on what you guys think this verse is saying.[/align]
What is the meaning of the "word of my patience"?
What is the "hour of temptation"?
Is the phrase " them that dwell upon the earth" in any way refering to a remnant?
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Leaf,
In the context of the verse. it looks like it was a word directed for tha tparticuliar word. However; a word we can learn a lesson from as well. God takes care of those who read, study and obey His word.
Chuck
Proof Text or Pre-Text? By Tim Warner - Revised 5/2002
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10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
A Conditional Promise
Notice the promise to "keep thee from" the hour of temptation is conditional upon keeping Jesus' Word with patient endurance. The Greek word "patience" in this verse is found seven times in Revelation (1:9, 2:2, 2:3, 2:19, 3:10, 13:10, 14:12). The last two are referring to believers in the tribulation patiently enduring the persecution of the Antichrist. Jesus' promise to the local church of Philadelphia was because they had kept His Word with patient endurance thus far. Jesus did not make this promise to the other six local churches in Revelation. The promise is limited to one local church among many, and in response to their faithfulness. Of course, we can and should make broader application just as we do with all of the Epistles, written to local churches. However, we must also keep in mind the conditional nature of the promise, for those who have patiently kept Jesus' Word. To assume a guarentee for all believers from this verse is a huge mistake. That goes far beyond what is stated or implied, and enters the realm of presumption. Remember Jesus' statement at the end of His Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7)? He likened believers who keep His Word to one who builds his house on the rock. He said that whoever keeps His sayings in that sermon would stand firm when the storm comes. Not all believers keep Jesus' Word with patient endurance. If we are going to make a broader application of this promise than what is literally stated, at best it can be seen as a promise to SOME believers who take Jesus' advice in the Sermon on the Mount. It is certainly not a blanket promise for the Church at large. A Promise of Immunity? Or a Promise of Preservation?
Much of the meaning of this verse hangs on the phrase "keep thee from." It is pretty obvious that the "hour of temptation" refers to the events following in Revelation. But, does "keep thee from" mean removal or preservation? This is the key question. The Meaning of "From"
Pre-tribbers claim the word "from" in the Greek [ek] means "out of." Therefore, they claim we will be physically kept "out of" the tribulation.
It is true the Greek word "ek" means "out of." However, as we will see later, they misinterpret the word "keep." They also misunderstand this little Greek preposition "ek." "Ek" normally requires a previous presence within the object, in this case, the tribulation. In the multitude of occurrances of "ek" in the Bible, in virtually all of them "ek" implies a previous connection to the object, usually within it. Rather than denoting a stationary position, "ek" implies a movement or emerging from within the object. The meaning of "ek" would more accurately be translated "out from among," or "out of the midst of." This is how it is defined in the Greek lexicons. In Rev. 3:10, the object is the tribulation. In order to come "out from among" the tribulation you must first be IN the tribulation. This usage can be demonstrated from the following verse. Rev. 7:14
14 ...These are they which came OUT OF great tribulation,...
The words "out of" are also translated from the Greek word "ek." In this case, it is clear these saints were in the tribulation first, and emerged from it.
There are three Greek prepositions which could be translated "from" in English, with different meanings. The Greek words "para" and "apo" mean motion away from, or a fixed position outside the object. Had either of these been used in Rev. 3:10, the implication would be that believers would be kept out of, and remain outside, the tribulation. However, "ek" in contrast, means, motion from the interior of the object. That is, emerging from within the tribulation. Based on the meaning of "ek" alone, the implication strongly favors a post-trib view of the saints emerging from within the tribulation.
Pre-tribbers attempt to redefine "ek" to mean totally exempt from the tribulation. They have put forward a couple of examples where "ek" may not demand a previous presence in the object. However, if their interpretations of these few cases are correct, they would most certainly be the exception and not the rule. In case you would like to compare other examples of "ek," here are all the occurrances in Revelation chapter 3. The English words represented by "ek" are in bold. Rev 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name OUT OF the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
(KJV)
Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them OF the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
(KJV)
Rev 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(KJV)
Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down OUT OF heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
(KJV)
Rev 3:16
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee OUT OF my mouth.
(KJV)
Rev 3:18
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried IN the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(KJV) The Meaning of "Keep"
Our English word "keep" can have a variety of meanings, including to prevent, restrain, obey, hold, preserve, etc. Because of this, it is confusing in Rev. 3:10. Pre-tribbers interpret the phrase "keep thee from" to mean "prevent from entering." That is, "keep thee from" would mean to restrain or prevent from entering or experiencing the tribulation. But, "preventing" is not the meaning of the word "keep" in this verse. "Keep," is translated from the Greek word "tereo" which literally means "to keep an eye upon" in the sense of putting your full attention on someone or something. It does not mean to prevent or restrain. "Tereo" implies a kind of giving one's full attention to something or someone. It often implies preservation, but does not require that meaning. The most common usage of "tereo" in the New Testament is in regards to "keeping" God's commandments or words. That is, observing them. The Meaning of "Keep...from"
Thayer's Greek Lexicon says that when "keep"[tereo] is used with "from" [ek], it means: "by guarding, to cause one to escape in safety out of." That is, to keep full attention on them so as to assure their final emergence. Therefore, Rev. 3:10 cannot mean removal before the tribulation begins, but safely emerging from within the tribulation. Pre-tribbers misunderstand both the word "ek" and the word "keep."
There is only one other time this Greek phrase appears in the entire Bible. And, as we shall see, Jesus' statement in Rev. 3:10 is a referrence to His High Priestly prayer in John 17, which also contains the phrase. The night before Jesus was crucified, He prayed in the garden for His disciples whom He was leaving in the world, and also all believers who would come after them. In this prayer, Jesus used the word "tereo" (keep) several times, but in two different ways. He spoke of His and the Father's "keeping" (attentiveness and preservation) of believers, and also believers being attentive to, and "keeping," Jesus' words. John 17:6
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of (ek) the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have KEPT (tereo) thy word.
(KJV)
John 17:11
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, KEEP (tereo) through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
(KJV)
John 17:12
12 While I was with them in the world, I KEPT (tereo) them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
(KJV)
John 17:15
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest KEEP (tereo) them FROM (ek) the evil.
(KJV)
Notice the word "ek" in verse 6. Jesus considered His disciples as having come "out of" the world. He did not mean physical removal, nor did He mean they were never a part of this world. Rather, He meant they had emerged from the world system, being called out unto Christ. In verse 6, Jesus also used the word "keep" (tereo) in reference to His followers observing God's Word, as delivered by Jesus. In response to their "keeping" His Word, Jesus prayed in verses 11 & 12 that the Father would "keep" (preserve, or be attentive to) believers. In verse 17, we have the only other occurrance of the phrase found in Rev. 3:10, "tereo...ek." Jesus asked the Father NOT to take them out of the world. That is, not to physically remove them from the sphere of this present evil world. Jesus in effect prayed that the Father leave us here, in the midst of this evil world. But, He also prayed that He would "keep (tereo) them from (ek) the evil.
Notice the exact parallel in Rev. 3:10. In both John 17 and Rev. 3:10, Jesus spoke of our "keeping" His Word. And in both He spoke of our being "kept" (preserved or given God's full attention) in RESPONSE to our keeping His Word. And in both we are preserved out from among evil. In Rev. 3:10, John clearly defines it as "the hour of temptation." It is the same as Paul's "The day, The evil" in Eph. 6:13, and Jesus' "the evil" in John 17:15.
Jesus' Prayer & Promise John 17 Rev. 3:10
Believers KEPT (tereo) His Word
thou gavest them me; and they have KEPT (tereo) thy word. (vs. 6)
because thou hast KEPT (tereo) the word of my patience
He will KEEP (tereo) believers
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, KEEP (tereo) through thine own name those whom thou hast given me (vs. 11)
I also will KEEP thee
"KEEP...FROM" (tereo...ek)
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest KEEP (tereo) them FROM (ek)(vs. 15)
I also will KEEP (tereo) thee FROM (ek)
Preservation from...
"the evil" (vs. 15)
"the hour of temptation"
It is extremely important to understand that the exact phrase in Rev. 3:10 (tereo...ek) is put in contrast to the idea of removal from the world in John 17:15. In effect Jesus said, "Don't take them out of the world, instead keep attentive to them with a view to their safely emerging from among the evil." Therefore, not only was Jesus referring the Philadelphian believers back to His High Priestly prayer in John 17, but by doing so He was indicating they would NOT be removed from the world, but would be watched over attentively during the "hour of temptation," having "kept" Jesus' Word with patience. Revelation 3:10 is not a promise of removal before the tribulation. It is a conditional promise for those who have been attentive to keep His Word. Jesus will be just as attentive to them until they emerge from the "hour of temptation."
Some pre-tribbers argue that Rev. 3:10 cannot mean preservation in the tribulation because Revelation 13:7 indicates the Antichrist will "overcome" the (tribulation) saints, making this just an empty promise. However, Rev. 13:7 is speaking of persecution of the saints by the Antichrist. He will physically overcome many believers, who will become martyrs. However, Rev. 12:11 says the saints overcome Satan, by being faithful unto death. While the Antichrist may overcome many of the believers physically, these same believers are said to 'overcome' Him by being faithful unto death. The promise in Rev. 3:10 is not of physical survival. It is a promise of God's presence going with us through the trials. One could make the very same argument from John 17, that Christians today experience 'evil' all the time. Therefore Jesus' prayer goes unanswered! Of course we realize that in John 17 Jesus did not pray that no physical or emotional harm would ever come to His disciples. All of them were martyred but John! We understand this as a prayer that they would not be overcome by the evil, but would emerge victorious. So it is with Rev. 3:10.
__________________
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Seems like I'm missing something when I take this verse to mean that it was only speaking to the church in Philidelphia. Why would God make a promise soley to that church that held true for all the other churches also? Seeing as how we have not come into the tribulation yet and that church and how many generations have come since then. What would be the problem with the context of that verse taken to mean that all the saved would miss the tribulation? I'm trying to find some scripture that shows the church here during the tribulation period.It would need to be scripture that shows the church before the trib being the same church during and not those that may have accepted Christ during.
Basically I'm beggining a study to find out whether I believe in pre trib, mid trib, post trib or pan trib. Right now I'm pan trib and am not satisfied with that.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
2. THE BLOOD WASHED MULTITUDE.[align=center]Rev. 7:9-17.[/align]
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, SALVATION TO OUR GOD WHICH SITTETH UPON THE THRONE, AND UNTO THE LAMB. And all the angels stood round about the Throne, and about the Elders and the Four Beasts, and fell before the Throne on their faces, and worshipped God, saying, AMEN: BLESSING, AND GLORY, AND WISDOM, AND THANKSGIVING, AND HONOR, AND POWER, AND MIGHT, BE UNTO OUR GOD FOR EVER AND EVER. AMEN.
And one of the Elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in White robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB. Therefore are they before the Throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His Temple: and He that sitteth on the Throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more: neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the Throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of water: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
p. 67 This "Blood Washed Multitude" introduces us to another class of the saved of the "End-time." They do not represent the Church, for the Church has already been taken out. They differ from the Elders, who represent the Church, in that they stand, and have "palms" in their hands, while the Elders have "crowns," and "sit on thrones," and have "harps," and "golden vials" in their hands. They are an "elect body" of Gentiles gathered out from all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues. The statement that they "came out of great tribulation" does not necessarily imply that it was "The Great Tribulation" that they came out of, for that covers only the "last half" of the Week, and they are seen by John in the middle of the "first half" of the Week. The Revised Version uses the word "come" instead of "came," and some versions the words "coming out." It does not say that they came out of "THE Great Tribulation," but simply that they came out of "great tribulation," and as the whole of the Week is a period of tribulation they could come out of tribulation any time during the Week. They are a vast multitude saved by the preaching of the "Gospel of the Kingdom." While the Holy Spirit went back with the Church to escort the "Bride to be" home, it does not follow that He remained there. For in Old Testament times, and during the earthly ministry of Jesus, He was active in the conversion of men, and so it will be after the Church is caught out. Those who are converted during the Tribulation period will be converted by the Holy Spirit.
__________________
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Rev 3:10 ..Hour Of Temptation
