O.k. as I read many of your posts you seem to all think that there will be a time when all these things will take place. I, of course, believe they HAVE ALREADY taken place. So I have two questions for yuo guys to answer for me. I am asking out of a pure heart and with no guile in my questions, just want to know how you deal with these scriptures.
1. In Matthew 24:34, when Jesus says that "this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled."Which generation is He speaking of? Is He not saying that all "theses things" will happen during the lives of His hearers?
2. The "tribulation" ofthe prophet Daniel in Daniel 11:31 & 12:11, andthe tribulationfound in Matthew 24:15-29, Mark 13:14, and Luke 21:20; are all the SAMEtribulation! If that is true, then hasn't that tribulation ALREADY happened? Isn't that the ONLY tribulation spoken ofin the New Testament?
Thanks for your consideration, I'm just looking for some answers to an important doctrine.
Trae
As I admitted to Chuck, I haven't yet done an intensive study of end times. As for the couple of questions you asked:
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1. In Matthew 24:34, when Jesus says that "this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled."Which generation is He speaking of? Is He not saying that all "theses things" will happen during the lives of His hearers?
What you pose is understandable. However another way that I have alwaysunderstood it is that "this generation" isnot directed to His direct hearers at that time, but rather the generation that sees all of these things come to pass. This is the "this generation" He is speaking of.
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2. The "tribulation" ofthe prophet Daniel in Daniel 11:31 & 12:11, andthe tribulationfound in Matthew 24:15-29, Mark 13:14, and Luke 21:20; are all the SAMEtribulation! If that is true, then hasn't that tribulation ALREADY happened? Isn't that the ONLY tribulation spoken ofin the New Testament?
From my understanding thereare still things that have yet to come to pass before the time of God's judgments as laid out in Revelation take place. For one, the "man of lawlessness" is to set himself up in the Temple of God and proclaim himself to be God. To my understanding this hasn't happened yet as the Temple is not yet rebuilt for this to take place.
There hasn't been a system set up where no one will be able to buy or sell anything unless they bear this mark spoken of in Revelation. There hasn't been a mass execution (beheading) of those who refuse to take this mark.
There's quite a bit unanswered for if what you say is true.
A couple of interesting Jewish websites about them rebuilding their Temple:
G-man,
From our conversations in the past I know you are an excellent Bible student. It is kinda suprising that you didn't answer my question # 2. Would you re-address it for me? I asked:
2. The "tribulation" ofthe prophet Daniel in Daniel 11:31 & 12:11, andthe tribulationfound in Matthew 24:15-29, Mark 13:14, and Luke 21:20; are all the SAMEtribulation! If that is true, then hasn't that tribulation ALREADY happened?Isn't that the ONLY tribulation spoken ofin the New Testament?
Quote:
From my understanding thereare still things that have yet to come to pass before the time of God's judgments as laid out in Revelation take place. For one, the "man of lawlessness" is to set himself up in the Temple of God and proclaim himself to be God. To my understanding this hasn't happened yet as the Temple is not yet rebuilt for this to take place.
There hasn't been a system set up where no one will be able to buy or sell anything unless they bear this mark spoken of in Revelation. There hasn't been a mass execution (beheading) of those who refuse to take this mark.
There's quite a bit unanswered for if what you say is true.
Roman Ceasars DID set themselves up as "gods" and then they tore down the temple to get to the $$$$$$. And there was a mass execution of Christians in Rome.
Matt: 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25
Behold, I have told you before.
24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Have there been false Christ that have shown great signs and wonders? I am aware there have been men who have claimed to be Christ, but I am unaware of any of them having shown great signs and wonders, correct me if I am wrong, I like others am trying to study this out also.
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The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog
Matt: 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
If the tribulation has already taken place would not the sun have been darkened, the moon gone dark and the stars have fallen already?
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The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog
If the tribulation has already taken place would not the sun have been darkened, the moon gone dark and the stars have fallen already?
Continue to read that part though, Matthew 24:29-31"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Well, I don't have all this figured out already. But, I do see that it tells us WHERE this stuff is to happen, not on earth but in heaven.And if you read Isaiah 13:10-ff you see the very same words used to say basically that Babylon would be destroyed.
I think it's prophetic language that just says the destruction will be devastating, and complete. Isaiah 13:10-13 "For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will put an end to the pomp of the arrogant, and lay low the pompous pride of the ruthless. I will make people more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the Lord of hosts in the day of his fierce anger."
Have there been false Christ that have shown great signs and wonders?
I think of Simon the Sorceror in Acts 8, Acts 8:9-11 "But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the power of God that is called Great." And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic."
And if we consider the "false Christs from the writings of Josephus there were many who said they were the Christ after the ressurection of Jesus.
Also Brother Trae,
I listened to Matthew 24 on my way home from work real good. here are some things that show the tribulation talked about here has not happened yet.
1. Twice I noticed Jesus says " Then THE END shall come. The end has not come yet.
2.Our solar systenm has done some strange things , but nothing like in Matthew 24.
3.The gospel as not been preached to every creature yet.
4. And lastly ,this is supposed to be the worst ,the badest THE GREAT TRIBULATION " worst than any that has ever come to the earth."
In Revelation we see 1/3 of all fresh water polluted.
1/3 of all trees gone. We have Moses and another witness in Israel who will be killed and then raised back to life. We have men falling on rocks trying to kill their selves because of the horrible locust stings to them who have have taken the mark. There is some bad stuff on God's agenda. This kind of mindset will change the way you think. One begins to obey God in the small trials we go through. His heart learns not to complain but in all things give thanks. One appreciates the good we have now but not get to attached to it.
In His love,
Brother Chuck
Tribulation Question?
