Must one Embrace Joseph Smith to live in the presence of God (for Clint et al)

Porter Rockwell · 07-14-2005, 11:23 AM

Clint:Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to livewith God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?

Porter: To live with God the Father for all eternity. Yes. One must live the Restored gospel and abide by all the ordinances as given to Joseph Smith. Realize these ordinances are the same ordinances that were taught and complied with by Christ himself and his followers (ie. Baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost). See Matthew 3:16 and John 3:3-5.

One does not have to embrace Joseph Smith and the teachings and ordinances as given in order to live in the presenceof God the Son (Jesus Christ).

Furthermore, one does not need to embrace Joseph Smith and the teachings and ordinances in order to live in the presence ofGod the Third or the Holy Ghost.

I"™m sure this should generate some response.

God Bless,

Porter.

DaveH · 07-14-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

To live with God the Father for all eternity. Yes. One must live the Restored gospel and abide by all the ordinances as given to Joseph Smith. Realize these ordinances are the same ordinances that were taught and complied with by Christ himself and his followers (ie. Baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost). See Matthew 3:16 and John 3:3-5.

OK--here they are:

Matt 3:16 (NIV) As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.

John 3:3 (NIV) In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Clearly, Jesus is telling (and showing) us the importance of baptism. I don't see how you can equate this with following Joe Smith's teachings. Not only does God's Word fail to mention Joe Smith, it WARNS us about people like him and the danger of following them. How following Joe will get you into God the Father's presence is not found ANYWHERE in God's word and serves to show that Joe was overly (and unjustly) impressed with himself and wanted everyone to follow him and whatever he decided.

Moose75 · 07-14-2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Porter: To live with God the Father for all eternity. Yes. One must live the Restored gospel and abide by all the ordinances as given to Joseph Smith.

Ank! Wrong answer!

Leafrivermac · 07-14-2005, 12:19 PM

I don't mind asking a dumb question.

Exactly how are the folk like B.Young and J. Smith esteemed in the Mormon church? I mean, are they viewed as simply men that were leaders, or do they now hold the position as gods to you, or something like saints?

Moose75 · 07-14-2005, 12:33 PM

hey Joseph Smith just contacted me and he's down there with the rich man and his tounge is on fire! He want me to tell you guys to please not follow him down there and to read Luke 16.

Rebel Hog · 07-14-2005, 12:43 PM

Porter, are you telling me that if Ihave been baptized and embrace
Joseph Smith it will get me into heaven?

That's like telling me, if I embrace bro.Clint, it will get me into Heaven.
Only a Mormon will believe that!

motor · 07-14-2005, 01:49 PM

j. smith and b.young ain't got nothing to help you get to heaven be with God.. the bible makes it very plain in John 14:6,
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Sir i believe you are sincere in your belief and i also believe you are sincerly wrong..

in Matt. 3:16, Jesus was baptised as an example for us to follow..He had no sin so He wasn't baptised to be saved or to wash away his sin..

when we are saved we recieve the Holy spirit immediately as Jesus did..we don't need no laying on of hands..

In John 3:3-5, in verse 5 the words being born ofwater means the Word of God not being baptised in water..

Porter Rockwell · 07-14-2005, 02:00 PM

DaveH: Clearly, Jesus is telling (and showing) us the importance of baptism. I don't see how you can equate this with following Joe Smith's teachings. Not only does God's Word fail to mention Joe Smith, it WARNS us about people like him and the danger of following them. How following Joe will get you into God the Father's presence is not found ANYWHERE in God's word and serves to show that Joe was overly (and unjustly) impressed with himself and wanted everyone to follow him and whatever he decided.

Porter: Dave, why would Jesus Christ tell and show the importance of baptism and being "born again" if he didn't want his followers to do it and follow it. It seems to me that is waht he taght his Chief apostle and them commanded him to teach it.
I am not equating this with Joseph Smith and his teachings per say. If you will take the time to read what Joseph Smith had to say about the importance of Baptism (I'm sure you will

), you will clearly see that he does not contradict what the Savior said, did and then asked others to follow as well.

May I clearly state that Josepgh Smith never said "FOLLOW ME AND YOU WILL BE SAVED." Instead he always said, Follow God and you will be saved. However, he did preach "Follow the ordinances and you will be saved, else not you may be damned (Not progress the term here, not burn in hell eternally).

The question here is, did God give Joseph Smith the saving ordinances. More importantly, did he give him the Priesthood authority to perform those odinaces on his (Christ's) behalf. In addition, show me in a different thread where he made the extravagant claims about himself that you make. I'll respond as I can, I have plenty to deal with here with the other posts I have responded to.

Porter Rockwell · 07-14-2005, 02:01 PM

Reb,

Thanks for the question. Please refer to my post to Dave H. above.

God Bless.

Porter.

Porter Rockwell · 07-14-2005, 02:09 PM

LeafRM,

Great question, bythe way I owe you another response from an earlier post. and one for Leaf RL

You asked: "I don't mind asking a dumb question.

Exactly how are the folk like B.Young and J. Smith esteemed in the Mormon church? I mean, are they viewed as simply men that were leaders, or do they now hold the position as gods to you, or something like saints?"

Porters Answer: We revere Joseph Smith and Brigham Young for being men called of God. We Worship God and his Christ only. We pary to God the Father in the name of Jeus Christ. Joseph, Brigham et al. are Saints only in the sense that they were members of Christs restored Latter-day Church.(Ie Latter-day Saints)We do not pray to them, not necessarily for them. They were simply put "men." Inspired men to us.

God Bless,

Porter