Book of Mormon Geography

[Goose 11]

Another few questions..... What do y'all think?
[ol][*]Why isn't the terrain of Central America described?[*]Why is it that numerous LDS books and papers describe proposed Book of Mormon locations for cities and the "narrow neck of land"? No city has been identified as being Nephite, Lamanite, Jaredite, etc. For example, Zarahemla was occupied for hundreds of years, but we still don't have any real evidence of it ever existing. The Book of Mormon describes a time period from 2000 BC to 400 AD and millions of people. No city they occupied has yet to be found.[*]Why didn't any of the place names from the Book of Mormon still exist when Columbus arrived?[*]Where was the Hill Cumorah? Was it in New York or Central America? If it was in Central America, why hasn't it been found? If it was in New York, how did they move that quickly and where are all the remains?[*]Why don't gaps exist in the archeological record of Mesoamerica if these missing people existed?[*]Did the Book of Mormon take place outside of Mesoamerica? The History of the Church records an incident from June, 1834 in which JS identified a skeleton found in an Indian burial mound in Illinois: ". . . the visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered the person whose skeleton was before us was a white Lamanite, a large, thick-set man, and a man of God. His name was Zelph . . . who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky mountains." (HOC 1948 ed., II: 79-80).[*]Why don't any archeologists theorize any Hebrew or Egyptian linkages or influences in Mesoamerica?[/ol]

[Judyboi]

Why didn't any of the place names from the Book of Mormon still exist when Columbus arrived?

The Nephites were destroyed a couple hundred years after Christ. As the Lamanites had another language, they wouldn't call them the same.

[Rebel Hog]

Nephite








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Nephite [/align]
In the Book of Mormon, the Nephites (BoM Arabic نا�يين N�fiyyīn) are a people descended from or associated with Nephi, a prophet who traveled with his family from Jerusalem to the Western Hemisphere circa 600 B.C. at the urging of God. The Nephites, initially a righteous people, eventually fell into wickedness, and they were utterly destroyed by their rivals the Lamanites circa A.D. 400.
Most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that the Nephites were a historic people. However, most mainstream archeologists argue that there is currently no compelling evidence that this group ever existed. The Mormon university Brigham Young University does archeological research in this area, and publications on this subject and other historical topics are issued by the FARMS organization associated with Brigham Young University.[/align][/align]

[Rebel Hog]

Mormonism / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints / LDS
While Mormonism is not strictly classified as "œChristian Fundamentalist"� its belief system does contain many of the aspects of standard fundamentalism. Mormon theology is based on beliefs that can not be empirically confirmed and contradict scientific explanations (mostly archaeology)*. These aspects are found mostly in what Mormonism"™s adherents believe to be their sacred scripture: The Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants.
The book of Mormon is the foundation of what differentiates Mormons from other Christian denominations. The book claims to be a translation from gold plates of a record about an ancient civilization in North America that was visited by Jesus Christ. The Book of Morman is proported to be a translation of ancient golden tablets that was given from God to Joseph Smith through the Angel Moroni in the mid 19th century. The tablets were subsequently supposedly taken back into heaven thus conveniently removing any attempt at empirical verification. Lack of evidence notwithstanding, it must be noted that Mormon believers are taught to not rely on empirical evidence for their beliefs in any case. They are enjoined to rely completely on subjective feelings "œin their heart"� in their acceptance of truth of The Book of Morman as stated in Moroni 10: 3-5 (from Book of Mormon). If they ask with a "œsincere heart"� and having "œfaith,"� God will reveal the truth of the book to them. Of course, if they still don"™t believe after that, they must not have a sincere heart or enough faith.

[Rebel Hog]

Scientific View of Mormon Beliefs
The detailed history and civilization described in the Book of Mormon does not correspond to anything found by archaeologists anywhere in the Americas. The Book of Mormon describes a civilization lasting for a thousand years, covering both North and South America, which was familiar with horses, elephants, cattle, sheep, wheat, barley, steel, wheeled vehicles, shipbuilding, sails, coins, and other elements of Old World culture. But no trace of any of these supposedly very common things has ever been found in the Americas of that period. Nor does the Book of Mormon mention any of the features of the civilizations which really did exist at that time in the Americas. The LDS church has spent millions of dollars over many years trying to prove through archaeological research that the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical record, but they have failed to produce even a shred of pre-columbian archeological evidence supporting the Book of Mormon story. In addition, whereas the Book of Mormon presents the picture of a relatively homogeneous people, with a single language and communication between distant parts of the Americas, the pre-columbian history of the Americas shows the opposite: widely disparate racial types (almost entirely east Asian - definitely not Semitic), and many unrelated native languages, none of which are even remotely related to Hebrew or Egyptian.
The people of the Book of Mormon were supposedly devout Jews observing the Law of Moses, but in the Book of Mormon there is almost no trace of their observance of Mosaic law or even an accurate knowledge of it.

[hr]

"I have seen no archaeological evidence before or since that [1973] date which would convince me that it [the Book of Mormon] is anything but a fanciful creation by an unusually gifted individual living in upstate New York in the early nineteenth century."
--1993 Michael D. Coe, professor of anthropology at Yale University

[hr]

Prepared by
THE DEPARTMENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY
SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
STATEMENT REGARDING THE BOOK OF MORMON
1. The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archaeologists see no direct connection between the archaeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.
2. The physical type of the American Indian is basically Mongoloid, being most closely related to that of the peoples of eastern, central, and northeastern Asia. Archaeological evidence indicates that the ancestors of the present Indians came into the New World--probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the Bering Strait region during the last Ice Age--in a continuing series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.
3. Present evidence indicates that the first people to reach this continent from the East were the Norsemen, who briefly visited the northeastern part of North America around 1000 A.D. and then settled in Greenland. There is no evidence to show that they reached Mexico or Central America.
4. None of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or animals (except the dog) occurred in the New World in pre- Columbian times. This is one of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific premise that contacts with Old World civilizations, if they occurred, were of very little significance for the development of American Indian civilizations. American Indians had no wheat, barley, oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, or camels before 1492. (Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, bat all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time the early big game hunters traveled across the Americas.)
5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteroic iron). Native copper was worked in various locations in pre- Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurrence in late prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their alloys, but not iron.
6. There is a possibility that the spread of cultural traits across the Pacific to Mesoamerica and the northwestern coast of South America began several hundred years before the Christian era. However, any such inter-hemispheric contacts appear to have been the results of accidental voyages originating in eastern and southern Asia. It is by no means certain that even such contacts occurred with the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, or other peoples of Western Asia and the Near East.
7. No reputable Egyptologist or other specialist on Old World archeology, and no expert on New World prehistory, has discovered or confirmed any relationship between archeological remains in Mexico and archeological remains in Egypt.
8. Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.
9. There are copies of the Book of Mormon in the library of the National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution

[Rebel Hog]

Statement on Book of Mormon Geography

The question of precisely where the events chronicled in the Book of Mormon took place arises naturally since to date neither the record itself nor the Lord through his prophets has revealed its New World setting in terms that permit conclusive linkages to modern-day locales. Speculation on the subject has spawned two principal theories: the hemispheric model (with Book of Mormon lands comprising North, Central, and South America) and the limited geography model (a restricted New World setting on the order of hundreds rather than thousands of miles). Although the hemispheric view was popular among early Latter-day Saints, it simply is not clear whether it was the result of prophetic revelation or merely the outgrowth of the personal ideas and assumptions of the Prophet Joseph Smith and other brethren. Historical research indicates that Joseph Smith never claimed revelation on the subject and that the thinking of early church leaders regarding Book of Mormon geography was subject to modification as new information came to light. Indeed, the diversity of nineteenth-century opinion is striking, attesting that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had no authoritative stance on what was"”and continues to be"”an open issue. Today many Latter-day Saint scholars and other serious students of the Book of Mormon favor the limited geography theory, with Mesoamerica (extending from southern Mexico to Guatemala) as the Book of Mormon homeland. This interpretation, with antecedents apparent in the 1840s, seems to best match the complex requirements of the scriptural text itself while remaining tenable after years of rigorous examination in light of the archaeological and cultural record of ancient Mesoamerica. More Information

[Rebel Hog]

The purpose of this paper is to evaluate the credibility of these claims of archaeological support for the Book of Mormon.
Book of Mormon Geography
The Book of Mormon describes the world of its inhabitants as an hourglass"“shaped land mass made up of a "land southward" surrounded by water, except for a "small neck of land" connecting it to a "land northward" (Alma 22:32). Determining the geographical location of these lands is a necessary first step before archaeology proper can be employed to evaluate the Book of Mormon, as Mormon archaeologists acknowledge.9 However, when one examines Mormon explanations of Book of Mormon geography, it turns out that there are two very different and mutually exclusive theories. According to the traditional view, the Book of Mormon peoples inhabited all, or virtually all, of North and South America.

[Knightia]

Arent some of the same things said about the believers& nonbelievers of the bible?

If they ask with a "œsincere heart"� and having "œfaith,"� God will reveal the truth of the book to them. Of course, if they still don"™t believe after that, they must not have a sincere heart or enough faith

Isnt it somewhat ironic-some in a
attempt to prove the mormons wrong also prove that the christian creationist are wrong also in there claims of a young earth& there other impossible ideas & claims for the bible

Archaeological evidence indicates that the ancestors of the present Indians came into the New World--probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the Bering Strait region during the last Ice Age--in a continuing series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.

Science isthere friend?
When they what to use it& it dosnt contradict there relgious ideas?
Suprizing what ppl will believe - in order to believe& ignore what they dont like& dosnt fit those ideas.

But itdoes seem god can only exist threw a book for some& all there believes are based on it, books written by men & the bible is no different.

[Goose 11]

The Bible is VERY different!

[Knightia]

[quote][/Prepared by
THE DEPARTMENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY
SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
STATEMENT REGARDING THE BOOK OF MORMON
quote] I dont know the relgious claims- or why" they" where studying it/ these things ....

(Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, bat all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time the early big game hunters traveled across the Americas.)

Thats right the elepant,camel& horse lived in N, america long long ago.there bodys have been found in ice, in rock& bogs etc etc
The last ice age was 10,000 plus yrs ago not 4000 after the bigflood?as some claim.

They where not dinosours .The Last time the yellowstone caldara blew it killed camels etc& that was about 650,000 yrs ago. and there have been nurmurious eruptions for the past few million yrs- in what is now called yellowstone. Many dinosours are also found here much older.
Impossible? Just scientists working for the devil without knowing it?