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Old 07-12-2005, 05:17 PM   #1
 
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Default Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Hello All,

I kind of felt like I was getting beat up a bit, so I thought I would start a new thread now am I skirting the issue again? If you have felt that I am skirting your questions, I promise that I am not. I am only one man with limited time. I need some additional help from other memebers of my faith.I ask judyboi and anyone else to join inif the will> Furthermore, it appears that most of you are in agreement with each other, yetalso have several questions to ask of me. In fact lets take a look at what I was able to gather from the Galatians 1:8 post. Here she goes.:

Questions:

From Leafriverlizzie


Galatians doesn't just talk about "the other gospel" it talks about "any other gospel" so I don't limit that verse to just the mormon beliefs. The reason that verse sticks out to me is because of your "Pearl of Great Price" and "Book of Mormon" that my mormon friends have told me are necessary to complete the Holy Bible. I believe the Holy Bible is the only inspired Word of God that I need in order to live a successful overcoming christian life. This I concluded before the "Godmakers" ever came out.
Spiritual apostasy is still rampant today. This verse cannot be confined to just the Galatian church and the situation they were in during that period of time.[/ol]
quote:

Paul's opponents also may have cited the role of the angels in the giving of the law (Gal. 3:19) to give a supernatural enhancement to their own proclamation of a law-observant gospel.


Isn't that what the mormon church has essentially done anyway (With the exception of "law-observant" as it applies to jewish law)?[/ol]
And apparently the mormon churches do also, adding other books in addition to the bible and receiving revelations that cannot possibly be from God. This post I made on the "Are Mormons a Cult?" thread shows just exactly what I experienced that had to do with so-called "revelations":
quote:

Leafriverlizzie said:
Mr. Porter, on some of your posts (I'm not sure which thread) you ask about the source of our information. I would like to mention something I was told by a mormon elder that greatly disturbed me. I was with some friends one time when a couple of elders dropped by. We got to talking about the differences in our beliefs. It was our understanding that the mormon church continually adds "new revelations" to your teachings while we accept the Holy Bible as the complete and only word of God. When we asked the elder about this, do you know what he responded? To my horror, he agreed that new revelations were still recieved and said, "if the Holy Spirit tells me right now to kill you I will." Needless to say, my friends never accepted those elders into their house again!

From Clint


Porter, as I have read some of your posts, I have noted that you are very good at skirting issues. You set up your straw men and continue to knock them down while avoiding the differences between historic Christianity and the Mormon view. In my mind, by dwelling on Tanner, Decker and White, you are merely evading the real issue--the differences between that historic Christian perspective and the Mormon view.You are a polite fella andI appreciate that. [/ol]
(Feel free to start a thread on this. Maybe the Historic Christian Perspective v. Mormon?)


Porter, is the Bible the inspired, inerrant Word of God?
A simple yes or no will do.
Is a saving faith in Jesus Christ the only way to heaven?
Again, a yes or no will do.
Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to livewith God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?[/ol]
(Porter: C'mon Clint, you know I can't give just the short answer here. Its not in my blood! Its almost as if you are treating me as a hostile witness on the stand! Kidding! But, your Honor it will take more than just a simple yea or nay. Sorry!)

From Chad:

8. What changed that required "another" revelation from Christ?

9.What happens to those who followed His word from the time Christ died up until Joseph Smith had his "revelations"?

10.One thing that cannot be covered up, hidden, or changed is that the teaching on multiple wives changed, and fairly quickly.

11.How could a true prophet make such a mistake?

12.How could it have been right and proper for some, for a short while, then wrong again?

From Dave H

13. What I want to know is WHY anyone would want to PAY people to expose the LDS? You state that they were PAID for this. Can you prove that they were . . . and WHY?



Porter: So folks, you can see there are many questions asked here. Now I know that you good folk are not anti-Mormons, but one anti-Mormon tactic is to innundate a Mormon with so many questions that they become frustrated and then will go on their merry way. Seen it happen many a time. Again, I'm not saying it is happening here, I think you just have a lot a questions. Most really cannot be answered with just a simple yes or no.

Therefore. I'll start with you list with number one and make my way to thirteen the best that I can. I will attempt to answer some on this thread, and I may start a new thread so it can be more concise. I appreciate the fact that you have let me know that I have "skirted" an issue. I promise it is more of a time issue than anything else.

God Bless.

Porter.
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Old 07-12-2005, 05:23 PM   #2
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Quote:
one anti-Mormon tactic is to innundate a Mormon with so many questions that they become frustrated and then will go on their merry way. Seen it happen many a time. Again, I'm not saying it is happening here, I think you just have a lot a questions. Most really cannot be answered with just a simple yes or no.
Quote:
Porter, is the Bible the inspired, inerrant Word of God?
A simple yes or no will do.
Is a saving faith in Jesus Christ the only way to heaven?
Again, a yes or no will do.
Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to live with God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?
Clint was asking for a yes or no answer. I think a lot of us would like to know your YES or NO answer to these simple questions.
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Old 07-12-2005, 05:33 PM   #3
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Porter, you seem to be a nice guy, but I keep believing in my
faith and what I read in the Holy Bible.
I have nothing against you, only in your beliefs. Which I am
sure you think the same of me. This is all I have to say on this
matter as the verses tell me to do so.


Titus 3:9 KJV
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Titus 3:9 NIV
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

1John 2:19
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
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Old 07-12-2005, 05:46 PM   #4
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Quote:
Is a saving faith in Jesus Christ the only way to heaven?
Again, a yes or no will do.
Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to live with God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?
With these here, you get complicated if yes or no is the only answer you want.
1. Technically yes, just not the highest degree of heaven.
2.Technically yes, if you want to dwell with God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Yet, no if you only care to be visited by Christ and/or the Holy Spirit.

Also, the Bible is an inspired collective works. It errs only as far as human translators have erred.So Yes.
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Old 07-12-2005, 05:50 PM   #5
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Porter,
I agree with you that in the right context that Paul was dealing with folks trying to put the gentiles under the law. However; I do believe that verses can be used in a few different ways. I have opened my Bible up before and it seems like a verse was specifically speaking to me when I know in it's original text it wasn't.
I have a question for ya Porter?
Is it true that there are some sins that the blood of Christ does not cleanse / or forgive?
Chuck
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Old 07-12-2005, 05:57 PM   #6
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Jonathan,
Jesus said that He was the way ,the truth and the life and that no man can get to the Father except by Him. I know in 2 Corinthians 12 that it does talk about different heavenly realms. But Paul mentions to be absent from this World is to be with Christ and I know He is sitting beside the Father . So if believers are with Christ they are in the ultimate place. The place where we will lay are crowns down before Him. ...at His thrown. We are His body. We will be with Him. We are now the Sons of God. Not step children but sons and daughters. He is preparing a place for us so that we might be with Him. Saved Christians Jonathan will forever be with the LOrd.
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:15 PM   #7
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Quote:
Is a saving faith in Jesus Christ the only way to heaven?
Again, a yes or no will do.
Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to live with God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?
With these here, you get complicated if yes or no is the only answer you want.
1. Technically yes, just not the highest degree of heaven.
2.Technically yes, if you want to dwell with God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Yet, no if you only care to be visited by Christ and/or the Holy Spirit.

Also, the Bible is an inspired collective works. It errs only as far as human translators have erred.So Yes.
This is all Joseph Smith's and other Mormon leaders teachings??
Sure it is , no need to answer.
I'm not trying to be rude or to ridicule, but do you have any idea how infinitly ridiculous that is? Better yet don't you see how the bible is in contradiction to those assertions? Whenever you guys get to me on your list I would like you to respond to my question of " what could possibly be the selling point of Mormonism that would convert any other mainstream christian to it? How could anybody that believes in the bible convert to this?

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Old 07-12-2005, 06:45 PM   #8
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Quote:
Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to live with God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?Technically yes, if you want to dwell with God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Yet, no if you only care to be visited by Christ and/or the Holy Spirit.
Wow, this is amazing. Essentially, what you are saying is that the teachings Jesus Christ gave to his hand-picked apostles were not as good as Joseph Smith's. This teaching also insinuates then, that every Christian that died from the time of Christ till the time of Joseph Smith did not have the opportunity to actually dwell with God. They'll have to settle for a visit. Hmm....... And you wonder why christians are against mormon teachings?
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:14 PM   #9
 
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Judyboi

Quote:
Is a saving faith in Jesus Christ the only way to heaven?
Again, a yes or no will do.
Must one embrace Joseph Smith's teachings to live with God in heaven for eternity? Yes or no?
With these here, you get complicated if yes or no is the only answer you want.
1. Technically yes, just not the highest degree of heaven.
2.Technically yes, if you want to dwell with God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Yet, no if you only care to be visited by Christ and/or the Holy Spirit.

Also, the Bible is an inspired collective works. It errs only as far as human translators have erred.So Yes.
God didn't make it technical.Its plan and simple.Don't Skirt the questions. I will take your answers to mean how you believe. Which is that you are going to a better place than us. No if ands or buts about it, your wrong dead wrong your belief is not Bible based. Before you go trying to "prove" your point (be cause thats what it is, its yours not from God) from the bible remember out of context you can make the Bible say alot of things. Remember the "Bible" teacher down here in Fl. that proved to his female students that God wanted them to be nude. Call me mean and rude if you must but you will say the samething about the Bible.

2 Peter 2:1-8
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

2 Corinthians 11:10-15

10As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
11Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Timothy 4:1-5

1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Titus 1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Titus 3:9-11
9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
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Old 07-12-2005, 08:22 PM   #10
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Default RE: Skirting the Mormon questions or not?

This one tells it all, Moose!

Titus 3:9-11
9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
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