We had a question come up this morning in church.

strut · 06-19-2005, 06:05 PM

Do you think God knew in the begining that mankind would turn out to be the sinfulcreature that man has turned out to be. I know that God even knows the hair count on everyones head, Maybe he chose not to know, maybe he did know, if so I wonder why he made man in the first place?

Leafrivermac · 06-19-2005, 06:13 PM

Hey Strut, if I'm reading these scriptures in the proper context they would indicate that God knew from the beggining.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I do have personal opinions about why, but have no scripture at the moment to back them up.

strut · 06-19-2005, 06:19 PM

Thanks for the reply Leaf, I too think that God would have known what man would turn out to be from the beginning, but its hard for meto understand why he would have made man that was going to turn out against him and the majority of mankindspend an eternity in hell. I look at the babies that are born, They did'nt ask to be born, and as they grow and become accountable his word teaches that the majority will spend an eternity in torment. I just don't understand some of this, maybe someday I will.

Leafrivermac · 06-19-2005, 06:59 PM

Yeah I know Strut and you have touched on something that used to hang me up but as christians, we need to keep a sharper perspective. The question should be, "How, in his arrogance, can man reject such a perfect, loving God and His plan to repair what man broke: a relationship with his Creator God?" God is not responsible for any of the pain and sorrow of this life and world. He is not responsible for the fall of man and the sin and suffering and death that resulted from it. That is all man's fault. There is no doubt that we are significant to the Lord and God went the extra mile for us.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

strut · 06-19-2005, 07:26 PM

Yeah I know what you are saying but I still have trouble understanding why God would create a baby, a baby that did'nt ask to be born to suffer for ever in hell. I don't blame God at all, I know mankinds suffering is his own fault and that we are responsible for our actions, Someday maybe we all will understand the things of God more perfectly.

Chuck7 · 06-19-2005, 07:33 PM

Strut ,
I don't think he expected man to be that bad because of this verse.
Genesis6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
If he knew man was going to be that bad he wouldn't of felt so bad and grieved in His heart.
Chuck

Snooky · 06-19-2005, 08:47 PM

strut; We must remember that God's ways are as the heaven is above the earth, above our ways and past finding out. Our knowledge and understanding is so limited compared to his knowledge, that we wouldn't be able to comprehend it even if he told us why.

We do know from the word that God made man for his fellowship and communion. This was the purpose of the Garden, the purpose of the Tabernacle, the purpose of Calvary and the giving of The Holy Ghost. Yet most refuse to walk with God to this day. God doesn't want any to end up in Hell, but he is a just God who will allow one to go there if he choses to do so. He tells us what the reward of righteous living is and he tells us what the reward of the wicked will be. He then tells us to choose which we want. If one ends up in Hell, it will be the choice of the individual and not the choice of God.

mr-pirk · 06-19-2005, 10:10 PM

Strut I would say that Yes God knew man would fail in the choice of free-will just as Satan failed in the choice of free-will and Michael and Gaberial succeded.
It is my opinion that just as everything else ,mans failure, was/is part of God's plan.

This will be abit cryptic.What excuse does a man have for rejecting God's will? It is my opinion that man's failure is what allows for God to correctly judge men and men have no excuse for their failure.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

Judyboi · 06-20-2005, 09:39 AM

I believe as God is Omnicient that he did. But we still have our free agency and he won't take that away.

Leafrivermac · 06-20-2005, 10:56 AM

From what I can tell in scripture God doesn't repent. There is a scripture somewhere that says that God is not man that He shpould repent. The scripture in Genisis that states that it repented God had to have been written using man's terminoligy, from man's perspective.
Of course there is the remote possibility that I could be . . .not right.