Jesus often had conversations with His disciples.
There is one in Luke's gospel that has always intrigued me.
I have often read these words with interest:
Luke 22:35-38
Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
[36] He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. [37] It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
[38] The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied.
Here is the One that is often referred to as "the Prince of Peace" telling those closest to Him to arm themselves. There are entire denominations that put a heavy emphasis upon Christian pacifism and nonparticipation in the military (ie. Mennonites). In light of that, does anyone have any thoughts about what Jesus meant when He said this to them?
Clint, The only way I can see this scripture is in the non-literal sense. It could be that this was a way of warning the diciples of perilous times to come. Indeed shortley after that Jesus was betrayed by Judas, etc. Not only that but there were many perilous times while the christian church was coming to be. This is only my best guess and others may shed a better slant on this for both of us.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
In those times spreading the gospel was a dangerous business. I take this to literally mean to buy a sword for protection. I don't believe the whole pacifism thing. If someone hits me, I will hit back. If someone comes into my home, I will defend it. Thats just me.
__________________
"If you are 20 and not a Democrat, you have no heart. If you are 40 and not a Republican, you have no brain"
I believe that the sword is another representation of the word of God. And how could his disciples preach without the word's of the Lord?
__________________
Hntngirl's mother-in-law and Personal Advisor
Davidmil's Seal of Approval: Non-Moderator Class
Master of the Shovel
Official Advisor to Sunset
Bro.Clint, I refer to the "Sword" as my Bible. In our church when they see you
without a Bible, they ask you wheres your Sword?
"THE SWORD OF THE LORD"
I also agree with Bro.Ewolf, if someone threatens me or my family, I would literally
pick up the sword against them and let God be the judge.
__________________
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Here is another verse:Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
I really can't logically agree with my first post (speaking in the non-literal sense), nor do I see Christ telling us to take up arms for battle. (Not that I don't believe in protecting my family or myself)
Why would 2 swords be enough? Was there a prophetic scripture anywhere foretelling of the Roman soldiers ear being cut off?
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Here is another verse:Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
I really can't logically agree with my first post (speaking in the non-literal sense), nor do I see Christ telling us to take up arms for battle. (Not that I don't believe in protecting my family or myself)
Why would 2 swords be enough? Was there a prophetic scripture anywhere foretelling of the Roman soldiers ear being cut off?
Leaf, this is how I have thought of it for a while:
Jesus is about to undergo the passion. He is telling them that persecutions will come because of him. He is telling them to defend their lives if they have to, but 2 swords are enough. In other words, don't use more force or violence than absolutely necessary. Turn the other cheek and walk away if possible. Keep peace unless you need to preserve your life or the life of another. How do you feel about that?
I don't think Jesus was a wimp or a total pacifist as some do. This is the man (God/man) who took a whip to the money changers in the temple. But He also knew anothers heart, whereas we don't. So we cannot assume that we have a license to act as He did.
I always look for a literal meaning before considering anything figurative. However, I think there are times when a figurative understanding is intended. For instance, Jesus doesn't want us to cut off bodily parts or pluck out our eyes to avoid sin, He was simply trying to express the seriousness of sin when He said that.
I believe that this scripture is probably multi faceted. I agree that Christ wasn't exactly meek in the way that we percieve meekness to be. Nor were many of the apostles. Of course He was God manifest in the flesh, the same God of the old testament that led the children of Israel to battle, and interceded in those battles. Of course Christ came in love in the New Testament, and demonstrated that love without a doubt. Many times tho, I think He demonstrated what we would call rudeness nowadays, especially when dealing with the scribes and pharisees. I'm not trying to make Christ sound less than He is . . .less than perfect, but I do wonder about the people pleasing aspect of what we concider meekness.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Clint,
I don't understand why but in Bilbe college we were taught the same interpretation as E-wolf. That it was to be taken literally. That was my Bible College's interpretation.
Chuck
I just did a quick research of 5 different commentaries.They all had the same arguement. "Christ could not have meant this literal ,because 2 swords would not have been enough for 12 disciples. "
As I said , it seems like it's multi faceted. On the one hand it seems like the diciples had not really been on the firing line so to speak. Jesus had been taking all the heat from the unbelieving scribes and pharisees. I can't think of too much that the diciples were actually subjected to prior to Christs being taken by the soldiers. Jesus knew that would soon change, so now He is telling the diciples to prepare themselves because the pressure on them is going to soon come. The fact that He says that two swords would be enough to me indicates that He is not telling them to become an armed troop, slashing their way thru adversity. Another facet of this to me is that it is an indication that armed self protection is granted to be sactioned in some instances at least.
Thanks for bringing this thread up Clint, it's kept me meditating most of the day.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
sword
