Smoking debate....

Pro-Line · 05-07-2005, 07:06 AM

Living north of Columbus, OH...the smoking debate is a neverending battle here. Columbus recently banned smoking in several areas.....bars included.

I am a non-smoker....let me say that. I am all for freedom, also. BUT, when others freedoms cost me an arm and a leg, it's time to look at the entire issue.

Smokers get sick. Plain and simple...it's a fact. Whether they die from cancer/emphisima or whatever is immaterial. They get sick, and their illnesses are lengthy. Long hospital stays, care, etc.

If they do get cancer, they don't drop over dead. They die a lingering death of many years. Not to sound cold, but it's true.

No other epidemic causes the illnesses and health problems that smoking does, and no other single addiction costs the health care providers as much in this country. (Obesity will be the next thing)

I, for one, am tired of having high health care costs to foot the bill for someone that made a poor decision and cannot quit. I quit, millions have.

I'm not a preacher, and I don't care is someone wants to kill themselves...just pick a quicker, less costly way.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

DougMD · 05-07-2005, 07:22 AM

Pro-Line, here's what tard farmer said about that in the other post:

Absolute fallacy. Smokers pay more into the system over the course of their lives than non smokers. They not only pay the outrageous taxes on cigarettes, they typically die younger so they're not receiving social security, medicare medicaid for30 years after retirement.

Pro-Line · 05-07-2005, 07:43 AM

Doug...I've heard that before. A LOT of smokers are welfare/non-insured people, that rely on tax $$$ for health insurance anyway. Plus, the highest portion of those dieing of lung cancer/emphisima are in their 70's....then they live for a couple more years....that leaves them 10-15yrs to collect SS.

Plus, the higher $$$ they pay for cigs only lines the tobacco makers pockets and goes into these "phantom" accounts that states have set up with the lawsuit money.

Ohio has a ton of that smoker lawsuit money that is being used for things it was NOT designated for.

muley69 · 05-07-2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Absolute fallacy. Smokers pay more into the system over the course of their lives than non smokers. They not only pay the outrageous taxes on cigarettes, they typically die younger so they're not receiving social security, medicare medicaid for30 years after retirement

I believe this information is accurate. I think I heard of a study on this somewhere, in fact, I think a court ruled that this argument could not be brought up in a civil case somewhere, but I can't exactly recall where, somebody else probably knows. The problem with the argument for life style choices v. cost is that it touches so many more area's then just smoking. Alcohol, food, sports, sexual activety, etc. All high risk injury activities whether work or play could be brought into the fold.

apmaurosr · 05-07-2005, 07:51 AM

DoudMD posted that Tardfarmer said:

"Absolute fallacy. Smokers pay more into the system over the course of their lives than non smokers. They not only pay the outrageous taxes on cigarettes, they typically die younger so they're not receiving social security, medicare medicaid for30 years after retirement. "

I think there's truth to this even though there hasn't been any evidence of wether the financial advantage actually ends up with the taxpayer or to the smoker.

But probably the same the same argument could be made to prevent spiraling health care costs by enacting legislation to prevent: obese people from eating too much, high cholesterol people from eating fatty foods, etc.

Where does it end?

Ant

Rebel Hog · 05-07-2005, 08:51 AM

All you people that have tobaco allotments are the first one's to bitch about smoking.
You love the money, but not the people who smoke!
I smoke imported cigars and I'm 65 and in good health. I have my lung x-rays and
annual phycical every year.The air we breathe is 100 times worst, because of our
industries and gasoline autos in the US. I am very considerate about the people I
smoke around, If they don't like it ,I don't lite up, I always ask If I may. I don't smoke
in anybodies home or my own, but untill they make it a National Law that I can't smoke
I will continue to enjoy my $5 and $6 cigars.

Pro-Line · 05-07-2005, 09:14 AM

Good posts, guys...and I appreciate the feedback. I'm not chastising...just wondering what y'all think. Hell, everybody I hang around is a smoker for the most part. I'd never think less of somebody for smoking.

Rebel...YOU ARE MISTAKEN. "I" don't have a tobacco allotment. My state does. And I'll never see one damn dime of that money. It will be used to fund worthless programs and pay the politicians wives to create worthless no-smoking campaigns.

And Rebel, my father turned 70 in the hospital this year...massive heart attack. His 6 brothers are all still living, and all older. One is 83. My father is the only smoker, and YES, he had his lungs x-rayed yearly...stayed thin....exercised. He'll be taking approximately $600/month in medications for the rest of his life. That negates half the SS he brings home. Only negative was smoking. I don't buy the dirty air thing, either. Too many non-smokers NOT getting lung cancer.

I just feel that it's not helping our pathetic health care system. Too many people on too much oxygen for 10+ years. A man may miss out on $200,000 of SS if he dies early, but in the hospital he'll burn more than $200k in a matter of weeks.

Rebel Hog · 05-07-2005, 10:37 AM

[quote]ORIGINAL: Pro-Line

Rebel...YOU ARE MISTAKEN. "I" don't have a tobacco allotment. My state does. And I'll never see one damn dime of that money. It will be used to fund worthless programs and pay the politicians wives to create worthless no-smoking campaigns.

Pro-Line, that's like accusing the user and not the pusher.(State of Ohio)

James B · 05-07-2005, 10:58 AM

I believe everyone should be able to smoke on their own property. However I would love to see smoking done away with in all Public places. I am a firm believer in the damage of second hand smoke. While smokers have every right to kill themselves with that stinking habit, they have no right to take others with them.

Knightia · 05-07-2005, 11:02 AM

Well like most things i can see 2 sides to this Proline including what yer saying& what others are too.
( except second hand smoke while outdoors_?)
But where does the control of what ppl do end as others have said - what they eat& drink in there own homes?- what they put on there lawns & gardens & farms .How much time they spend in the sun even?
ciggerttes are a bad habbit of course & not good for you& so are a lot of other things.
Cancers are variable & come from in many forms& from many sources- besides smoking- some will kill you real quick& some have very good surivaL rates

But like anything if they will except extream control measures for one - can what the other groups do be far behind? guns dosnt change yer dna but they can kill ya- but i dont see that as a good reason to get rid of them at all. But Many many do for that reason& those who wish to control what other persons do.
the goverment should give out more deadly/ effective ammo to gang bangers - so theres less wounded suriviours
The goverments well tell what you should put in your bodys- unless its a alt sex lifestype choice- then its well isnt that speical -in pc fairness even promote abnormailities( aids alone has cost more then all the smokers i bet directly to the govermet )& they pay no butt taxes

Ppl just cant be trusted having dangerious objects or to take care of themselfs. they must be controled & protected from themselfs our big brother says....
so the next time ya see someone in the sun or eating frys or a icecream or getting into a car or playing in or near water - go slap them up on the side of head & tell them there gona die& your calling thepc protector policia .

I dont like exessive ppl controls no matter what there dressed up as- but they do ussally show what ppl will stand for& get use too.