to those who don't like Bush's Social Security plan

[datamax]

I'm with you 100% !

Thats right, I love paying into a failing system. I love the fact that SS will run out of money in the coming decade. I love the fact that in spite of the tens of thousands I'm putting into it that I'll likely never see a penny of it in my lifetime unless I live to the ripe old age of 135.

I too hate the idea of the people of this country being able to invest part of that money they've put in. I too think it should stay in the current system of 1% return of investment.

So let me here a big Hell Yeah (ala Gretchen Wilson) for keeping Social Security as it is, Hell Yeah !

[Clint.]

Hell yeah!!

If you think pulling a measely 4% out of that system and setting it aside for your own little personal account is going to save you money...I got news for you!

That's the bait Bush is using to catch suckers.

If you think borrowing trillions more dollars and pouring it into a failing system is going to fix it...I got news for you!

There is only one way to fix it....you've got to pay more in taxes or let's abandon the whole system and let all those old people fend for themselves!

Bush's "plan" is gonna cost you a lot more than raising the combined employee/employer tax by the 1.89% that the Social Security Trustees (3 of whom are in Bush's cabinet) tell us it will take to fix it.

Go ahead...take the bait....suckers usually do.

Bush ain't trying to help the average Joe. He's got some friends on Wall Street who will benefit from his "plan".

Keep deluding yourself.

A pig who is headed to the butcher shop is happy right up to the time he gets there.

Clint

[tardfarmer]

That's the bait Bush is using to catch suckers.

Well he caught this sucker. I was capable of eeking out a 14% gain on some of my investments. Call me silly, but I think I can do better than the goobermint with MY OWN MONEY.

[Clint.]

ORIGINAL: tardfarmer

Well he caught this sucker. I was capable of eeking out a 14% gain on some of my investments. Call me silly, but I think I can do better than the goobermint with MY OWN MONEY.

That is excellent! I checked my own portfolio and it has a combined increase of 28% in the last calendar year.
However, Social Security is not an investment in "me". It is an investment in the generation ahead of me.
The only individual on this board who even understands what I have been talking about is VC1111. You people are trying to make Social Security into a program about yourselves. The younger generation will provide your Social Security check. It has NEVER been a set-aside for you! Study it a little harder!

Clint

[tardfarmer]

However, Social Security is not an investment in "me". It is an investment in the generation ahead of me.

That's why god made "savings accounts"... If you have children, start them saving early.

If they are your kids, they're not my problem, they're yours.

If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. Otherwise you're talking about neuvo socialism.

[tardfarmer]

You people are trying to make Social Security into a program about yourselves.

Correct! It is my money isn't it?

[Clint.]

The people who are retired right now provided the Social Security of a generation that is dead and gone.

If they had felt it was "their" money.....that now dead generation would have had no Social Security.

"Your" money is going to those who are now retired. The money of those who are now 20-30-40 years old will go to you when you retire. "Their" money will become "your" money at that time.

It had to be implemented that way because the government could never have funded Social Security for the first group of Americans who received it. Yes, it is what you jokingly call a "goobermint" program. Yes, I agree that it is socialistic to some degree. However, it is something that has worked well. It is a program that will contiue to do so with a few minor adjustments. The changes Bush is proposing will fund a lot more than a generation of senior citizens. His proposals will also fund the pockets of many of his banker friends and Wall-Street wheeler dealers. If you feel a greater sense of obligation to bankers and Wall-streeters than to senior Americans, then go ahead and pledge your full support to Mr. Bush's endeavors. Those guys can't wait to get a little richer by getting a share of your money.

Clint

[vc1111]

Well he caught this sucker. I was capable of eeking out a 14% gain on some of my investments. Call me silly, but I think I can do better than the goobermint with MY OWN MONEY.

At some point when the smoke clears do the math. From what I've seen and read, you and I are too old. The plan will wack your pee pee for having withdrawn the 4% to such a degree that even assuming a 9% yeild, you will have less in benefits than had you done nothing.

[datamax]

Clint - who paid for the first SS checks ?

Let me prove you wrong. Lets assume my Dad was born the year SS was formed. He's put into the system all his life, now he is drawing from it. Fancy that, he paid in, now he's taking out. Pay in, take out. You see how that works ?

You said

There is only one way to fix it....you've got to pay more in taxes

Are you serious ?

Lets assume your theory is correct, that todays generation is paying for tommorrows. Well buddy, we don't know how many tommorrow will be, but we DO know that more money today is paid into the system than ever before.

Thats funny math Clint because we have system doing EXACTLY what you propose right now - many more people paying in much more than ever before to pay not for the current generation but the future and its failing miserably.


And you want to put even MORE into a failing program ? Thats like seeing a guy bleeding from a wound in his arm and suggesting increasing the size of the woud to stop the bleeding.

[datamax]

The plan will wack your pee pee for having withdrawn the 4% to such a degree that even assuming a 9% yeild, you will have less in benefits than had you done nothing.

And if stocks do well , say 200% what would that be ? Or 50% return ? At least individuals have vested intrest in their future to a degree, unlike what we have right now.