I got a little out of hand on another thread to do with this subject and got my hand slapped from our friend Taz. I deserved it. But it is a free country, more or less, so I'm going to post about it again. This time, I'm going to sit back and listen for awhile and take notes.
This is a serious question folks, one I'm having great difficulty understanding. Please help me understand. If you look at all the threads out here that have anything to do with being an American, President Bush vs. Kerry, liberals vs. any other party, and so on, you will gather that there is a great sense of pride for this country among us - a common bond that strengthens us as gun owners, hunters, and fellow countrymen - the love for the USA. All its strengths, all its might, all its freedoms..... the every day life we boast about that makes us the greatest nation on earth has our heads lifted high. But the second one word is mentioned about supporting our country economically, the flood gates open to the greatest bash fest on earth about the lazy American worker, the unions, the high price of American goods and the inability to compete. Suddenly a tremendous lack of support and quite frankly respect takes over to prove that supporting our fellow Americans has gone by the way side to sell out to foreign markets. Why? It is seriously a mystery to me. You love the USA but yet are willing to support other nations BEFORE your own. Why?
__________________
We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a civilization, it expects what never was and what never will be.
Well, I won't type out the response I typed to this same question before it got axed, so I'll do the Cliff's Notes version...
I can't afford to buy exclusively American.
American labor has become so expensive that many Americans can't afford to buy American made products. Because the cost of American labor has risen to unnaturally high levels due to forces like organized labor and government mandate, we can no longer realistically compete with foreign labor that is able to produce equal products at lower costs. We simply cannot compete when it comes to labor intensive industries that require unskilled and semi-skilled workers. The foreign workforce has caught up with us in terms of these types of industrial jobs.
You can't demand $20/hr for a job that the market says is worth $7/hr and keep your job long. Companies get backed into a wall by unions that will knee-cap their business if they refuse to comply, and when they simply cannot pay more they are left with no choice but to pack up and move overseas where workers will GLADLY work for what no American would ever work for, or they close their doors and fold. Either way Americans lose jobs. It's a sad but inevitable economic fact. It's called "Structural Unemployment," and the only choice these menial laborers have is to either work for less or improve themselves.
I agree with driftrider. Organized labor has ultimately hurt the american labor force. I believe there once was a place for necessesity for organized labor, but that time has passed. So intertwined are the goods and products with the world community that it is difficult to tell whats made here and whats not. A widget that says its made here, may just be assembled here with totally foriegn parts. I own a business and shop locally as much as possible. In reality, I use a lot of German parts in our tile division. There are virtually no components available that come close to their quality that are made here in the USA. If there were, I would buy them. I think the biggest problem is Identfying what is actually made here, and what is not. If I am comparing two items of similar quality, I will always chose the one that is made in America.
I'm in agreement with Drift and Muley ,
I've seen foreign workers come here and do jobs I wouldn't touch for twice what they were being paid , and they were happy just to have a job . Combine their willingness to do menial low paying work with their strong work ethic and willingness to sacrifice for the good of the family/group and you just can't compete with them and still maintain the high standards of living that we've come to expect . That leaves the low or no skilled American with the choice of getting trained for something else or self employment . Compete of die is Nature's only law and the first rule of business in a capitalist society .
While I don't like unions , I also don't hold them to blame for the bulk of this mess . Many good things have come about for us because of the efforts of organized labor over the years . Unfortunately , these changes , while good for us , have made it much harder for us to compete for low skilled labor . Ironically , it has forced us to do the one thing that we've been resistant to because it wasn't easy , improve ourselves . When you have to learn something new and difficult just to maintain your standing with the Joneses then you have evolved a little further and are now back in demand . Maybe having to compete with them isn't such a bad thing after all .
__________________
Kevin Haendiges
NAHC Life Member
NRA Member
Wildlife Forever Member
GOA Member
Buckmasters Member
http://hunting-indiana.com
I realize that the cost of producing goods is cheaper overseas. That's not really what I'm asking though. If you take a look at several products - automobiles, shoes, clothes, furniture, etc.., you may be able to find the same product cheaper that is made overseas than the same type of product made here, but usually the quality suffers, and most often the pricing isn't that different. What I'm talking about is a mindset of supporting another country's economy and having no problem in doing so. All in the name of a global economy. We cannot simply go out and buy products soley made here, but why wouldn't you want to try? Is it what was was pointed out in the replies so far (American workers cannot compete at the pay they demand?), or is something entirely different? Why wouldn't you want to support your own economy to support people's income that allow them to buy things that helps you maintain a living? I have no idea if I'm getting my thoughts across in writing the way they are in my head and my heart.
__________________
We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a civilization, it expects what never was and what never will be.
High priced labor? Take a look around, the prices are so high on most products these days that the average American cannot afford them.
Quote:
You can't demand $20/hr for a job that the market says is worth $7/hr and keep your job long.
Try making it on $7 per hour...you can't do it! There is more to it than not being able to purchase American products. So much more. Figure in mortgage or rent, property taxes, utilities, gas, food, clothing, medical expenses, insurance, you get the picture.
Its a fact that in the last few years, increases in almost every needed and necessary thing in life has raised more than wages. The spending worth of the dollar is so much less than it was years ago and its getting worse. Thanks to our government and big business...........[>:]
I agree with the poiunts Driftrider and Muley69 made. I would also point out that I think many of us DO try to buy American. Sometimes, that simply isn't an option because there isn't an American made item. Sometimes it is a quality issue. I would rather pay a little more for better quality every time and simply have less things. That way I know I have quality possessions that will last and not fall apart. I honestly do try to buy American as much as possible. I do refuse to buy junk, however, and I also will buy the next best thing when american is not available.
__________________
Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
Free enterprise gets its name from allowing a person who is willing to assume certain risks to venture into a business freely to make a profit. If my business is making and marketing square spades and my cost to make one spade is $5.00 and I wholesale it for $8.00, simple math tells me I netted $3.00.
If I now decide that I can get $10.00 wholesale and I'm still selling as many or more shovels, there are people now who think that is not fair, so government steps in and starts setting controls telling me how much I can charge. Hmmmm! The consumer has the power but they refuse to exercise it. If my shovels are too expensive, stop buying them. That eventually will force me to drop my price or go out of business. Should govenment tell me how to run my business because I am a poor business man? This is one of many, many problems.
Another is this. Not so long ago, there was a family structure in this country where Dad worked, mom stayed home and nurtured the children and you know what? We all made it financially as well as we do today and perhaps better.
Some say economics demanded both parents work. I say it was more greed than economics and eventually, it became a necessity that both parents work. I now see that with both parents working and earning up to twice as much money, I could charge more for my shovels. The vicious cycle began. I had to pay more now for my materials for the same reason I could charge more for my product. You and I have been very instrumental in creating this economy.
We all agree America is the greatest but that doesn't mean we have to keep paying taxes for things we don't feel are worthwhile investments. I'll pay my fair share of Federal taxes for the national defense and those who have no one and cannot take care of themselves but let's not lose sight of what made American the greatest country on earth. It was our ability to create and work as hard as we wanted and we had the freedom to do that. Taxes were an evil word and government had a lot of restraint in asking for more taxes from its citizens. We were and are a great industrialized nation and we have helped others to do that too. We can't just now shut them out. Everything is growing at a pace that far exceeds what it was 50 years ago.
When we can't or won't change rapidly with rapidly changing times, we get left behind and struggle financially. It is really difficult for some people, especially those nearing retirement, to make those changes. When I grew up, it was expected to find a career with a good company, give them your 40 years and retire. If you changed jobs once or God forbid twice in your career, you were looked at as perhaps someone who had difficulty keeping a job. Now, it is common and expected to change jobs and change often to meet the changing economy.
It is hard to know whether you are buying American made or not and that will never change and for that reason you must too realize that just because you are buying another companies spades that are labeled "Made in Taiwan" doesn't mean Americans are going out of business. It just means that your dollars are going to companies that exist to make sure you had a less expensive spade sitting in the rack to buy.
I know this is somewhat oversimplified but I think it has a point.
I will defend my freedom and fight for my country for myself, my family and grandchildren and beyond and I will be one of the first to boast with pride about America but it is me and you that need to speak up as we did on election day and make sure our tax dollars are being spent wisely and to do what we can so that me and my neighbor can provide for ourselves.
Just because George W. Bush is a good and strong President doesn't necessarily mean he knows the best way to spend my tax dollars.
__________________
If you give a politician an enema you can easily hide them in a bread box.
There is obviously more here behind my questioning than just buying American or not. Kenton6, you hit on it a bit.
But... this is the mindset I'm talking about that I don't understand:
Quote:
... you must too realize that just because you are buying another companies spades that are labeled "Made in Taiwan" doesn't mean Americans are going out of business. It just means that your dollars are going to companies that exist to make sure you had a less expensive spade sitting in the rack to buy.
Maybe not companies going under (some of them anyway), just shifting production somewhere other than this country. Which in turn, leaves people out of a job. Yes, it's caused by every reason explained so far. Why? That's ultimately what I'm getting to. There's many pieces to the puzzle, and yes, it definitely has to do with globalism and our government.
So, do you think that when I buy American products, it somehow supports your living?
It's funny how many poeple think that saving money is about buying foreign goods. Somewhat true, maybe even a little. Not for the most part though. Again, take a look at hunting products. I was in a sporting goods shop today looking at different things in particular a pair of gloves. The shelves were packed full of Chinese and Tiawanese products, and a few from other countries no one has heard of. Funny thing is, all the foreign made gloves on the shelf were quite expensive. First, you have a captive, willing audience for the most part - hunters. And then, how much do you want to spend? If is says Scent Lock on them, you pay out the nose for them although they are made in China. The average camo mit/glove runs about 20 bucks, not made here though. Point is, the notion that foreign made goods are helping us keep our inflation in check just doesn't seem to be true.
__________________
We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a civilization, it expects what never was and what never will be.
When you buy foreign you are supporting peoples jobs too. Americans jobs are shifting also from actually making or assembling the product to creating the facility to sell the product, marketing, and who knows how many of those jobs at Walmart and others are in fact created because of the ability to sell more and less expensive products.
You are right it is very complex and it's not as simple as "Buy American".
__________________
If you give a politician an enema you can easily hide them in a bread box.
Help me understand, you love the USA, but...
