Hard Cold Facts

[Popere]

I am looking for alittle bit of help this morning. Yesterday some of my co-workers, and myself got on the topic of who we were going to vote for, and why. I told them that I am voting for Bush, and the main reason was gun control. Most of these people are LEO's, and used to vote republican. They have since turned into Bush hating liberals.

I started to state some of the things that I have read on this forum, and it seemed to open their eyes towards their can do no wrong Kerry. Can anyone help in my fight to bring them back to "our side"? I am looking for cold hard facts on Kerry's voting record on gun control. I know that if it comes from the NRA, or any other gun organization they will never belive it. I am looking for actual voting records. Can anyone tell me where to find these records? Any help on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

[Alsatian]

Popere:

You will have to follow up on the following information yourself. Unfortunately, the only people who track candidates anti-gun votes will be the NRA and like minded organizations. I suggest you follow up on the following voting record which comes from the NRA-ILA home page. Voting records are a matter of public record, so you can confirm these votes yourself and don't have to label it NRA originated material -- so long as you DO follow up and confirm the votes yourself.

Note that for item #2 on this list -- "voted to outlaw all centerfire ammunition" -- I followed this up myself to get more details. This was an amendment proposed for US Senate bill 1805 which Kerry voted to add to the S.1805. This amendment called for outlawing ammunition which would pierce police body armor. During discussions of this amendment it was explicitly mentioned that .30-30, .308 Winchester (in its NATO designation), and .223 Remington (in its NATO designation) would pierce police body armor. To me that means my .243, .25-06, and .30-06 would also pierce police body armor. What centerfire rifle ammunition would NOT have been banned? Read some more on this yourself. Hence, Kerry voted to ban all centerfire ammunition.

More to the point is Kerry's position on the 2nd amendment. He has said he supports the second amendment ". . . as it has come to be interpreted in this country." There is a lot hiding in that escape clause "as it has come to be interpreted in this country." I believe if you follow it down far enough you'll find Kerry does not believe that the second amendment addresses itself to the right of individuals to keep and bear arms but ONLY to the context of state militias. This is more scarey than the anti-gun votes.

************************************************** ****************
FACT: Kerry has voted nine times in favor of banning semi-auto firearms. 1

FACT: Kerry has voted to ban most center-fire rifle ammunition, including the most common rounds used by hunters and target shooters.2

FACT: Kerry has voted to close off hundreds of thousands of acres of the California Mojave Desert to hunting.3

FACT: Kerry has voted to hold the highly regulated American firearms industry legally responsible for the illegal acts of violent criminals.4

FACT: Kerry was one of only 15 Senators to oppose the Firearms Owners"™ Protection Act, which ended alarming abuses being committed under the 1968 Gun Control Act.5

FACT: Kerry was one of only 29 Senators to vote to prohibit gun manufacturers from discharging debts created by the reckless lawsuits filed by municipalities.6

FACT: Kerry has voted to allow BATF to conduct unlimited, warrant-less inspections of FFL holders.7

FACT: Kerry has voted to criminalize legal sales between private individuals at gun shows.8

FACT: Kerry has voted against increasing mandatory minimum and maximum penalties for the illegal transfer or use of a firearm. And yet he has also voted to impose penalties of a year in prison and a $10,000 fine on an adult if a juvenile steals a firearm from him, and then merely displays it in a public place.9

FACT: Kerry has voted to force many small firearms dealers out of business, which would have impacted both the availability and price of guns, particularly in rural areas.10

FACT: Kerry has voted 11 times to force law-abiding citizens to wait to exercise their Second Amendment rights. He voted to keep the federal waiting period after the National Instant Check System was in place.11

FACT: Kerry voted twice to eliminate the Civilian Marksmanship Program.12

FACT: Kerry wants to silence gun owners"™ voice. When NRA sought the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry called that effort "œhijacking America"™s airwaves."�13

FACT: Kerry commended the Million Mom March for their march on Washington that included calls for gun owner licensing, gun registration and other restrictions on law-abiding gun owners.14

FACT: Kerry twice supported legislation that would have mandated the inclusion of trigger locks with any handgun sale, forcing individual gun buyers to purchase products they did not necessarily want or need.15

FACT: If elected president, Kerry will pack the U.S. Supreme Court with Dianne Feinstein/Chuck Schumer/Ted Kennedy-selected anti-gun activists who believe you have no right to own any firearm.

FACT: Senator John Kerry has a 100% voting record with the Brady Campaign (formerly Handgun Control Inc.), a national gun-ban group.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~


1. Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 295, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 294, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 293, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 375, Nov. 17, 1993; Vote No. 365, Nov. 9, 1993; Vote No. 133, June 28, 1990; Vote No. 103, May 23, 1990; Vote No. 102, May 23, 1990.

2. Vote No. 28, March 2, 2004.

3. Vote No. 87, April 12, 1994.

4. Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004 ("poison pill" amendments).

5. Vote No. 142, July 9, 1985.

6. Vote No. 4, Feb. 2, 2000.

7. Vote No. 140, July 9, 1985.

8. Vote No. 134, May 20, 1999; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004.

9. Vote No. 118, May 14, 1999; Vote No. 224, July 22, 1998.

10. Vote No. 227, July 30, 1993.

11. Vote No. 141, July 9, 1985; Vote No. 115, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 113, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 278, Nov. 27, 1991; Vote No. 53, Mar. 19, 1992; Vote No. 262, Oct. 2, 1992; Vote No. 385, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 386, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 387, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 390, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 394, Nov. 20, 1993.

12. Vote No. 325 Oct. 12, 1993; Vote No. 178, June 27, 1996.

13. Vote No. 64, April 2, 2001.

14. Vote No. 104, May 17, 2000. 15. Vote No. 215, July 21, 1998; Vote No. 216, July 21, 1998.

15. Vote No. 215, July 21, 1998; Vote No. 216, July 21, 1998.
************************************************** ********************

Again, you will have to track this stuff down yourself. Maybe someone else has better information.

[BarnesX.308]

Again, you will have to track this stuff down yourself. Maybe someone else has better information.

That's actually pretty thorough.

[Popere]

I passed this info on to the people in my office. It was dismissed as being NRA propaganda. Does anyone have anything that is not from a gun organization? Is there a non NRA website that is easily understood?

[cardeer]

Popere, them co-workers are brain dead. the statistics might have been accumilated by the NRA,but them are sealed recorded votes he has made.Them votes are open for anyone to see. Black is black no matter who sees a black cat and says it. People like your dealing with have became traitors to the gun fight only because they hope Kerry will improve the economy in their favor. It is greed that leads them not brains. Boy I can see this getting switched to the political forum.

[Alsatian]

Popere:

"I passed this info on to the people in my office. It was dismissed as being NRA propaganda."

I'm not that big on quoting scripture, but it is written "let those who have ears hear, let those who have eyes see" or something like that. If your friends dismiss the NRA as pure propagandists, you aren't going to sell them on this idea anyway. The battle is lost. Don't fret.

This does raise an interesting thought to mull over. Unless you are prepared to dedicate your life to evangelizing about guns, you don't have too much opportunity to win any converts or to shape another's opinions about guns. Certainly not in the circumstances of talking to coworkers who have largely made up their minds long ago. How CAN you have a positive impact on how guns are perceived and understood by others? Talk to kids. Your own children first, and then your children's friends. Take your children shooting and, if possible, your children's friends shooting. Take them hunting if possible. Teach them about responsible, safe gun handling. Talk to them about the ideas of gun control and what you perceive to be the drawbacks of gun control. If you lead a good example and treat these children with care and respect, your words will not fall on baren ground. Without such first hand experience with guns on the part of the younger generation, you can expect the antis to win and the second amendment to become a quaint historical appendage with no more obvious relevance to everyday life than the appendix or tonsils.

[kevin1]

It's all clearly posted in the Congressional records ,
they can see for themselves .

[Popere]

Thanks guys for your comments. I have been beating myself up on this for days. I just don't get why they would want to vote for Kerry. The people in my ofc are all LEO's, who hunt and own guns. I guess I will never understand their hatred for Bush.

[Coastie]

A rather bizarre turn of events there popere, an entire staff of diehard conservatives going enmasse towards the liberal candidate! What reasoning are they providing for this? Is this the only community in the U.S. where the PD has switched or are there more? I am accustomed to the appointed commissioners and upper management of big city PDs being liberals but not the rank and file.

[Popere]

Our police chief was on television last night with the million moms trying to get people to write their congressman to make sure that the AWB does not sunset, and is passed. They say the economy, deficit, troops in iraq, all the crap the the libies talk about. There is even on female who is in the guard and her husband is mobilized who has always been republican, and is now saying that she is going to vote for Kerry this time because of the war. I just don't get it.