MAY 9, 2004 - The mother of stillborn twin boys was listed in stable condition Saturday at a Lufkin hospital, the day after her boyfriend was accused of causing the death of the fetuses.
Gerardo Flores, 18, was arrested Friday afternoon by Lufkin police after his 16-year-old girlfriend delivered stillborn twin boys at home and sought medical attention at an East Texas hospital, an arrest affidavit states. The teen was five months pregnant.
It could be one of the first cases prosecuted under a new Texas law that changes the definition of human life for a murder charge. Texas law now defines an embryo or fetus as an "individual" and allows for criminal prosecution or civil court action to be carried out for injury or death to the fetus, unless it results from a medical procedure.
Flores was being held in the Angelina County Jail on a $250,000 bond. If convicted, he faces from five years to life in prison and a fine of up to $10,000.
And here is yet another example of the ridiculous nature of Roe vs Wade. Its a living individual baby if the father wants to kill it .... .....uh, but if the mother wants it dead she can pay to have a doctor kill it and its NOT a living individual ??
Pro-abortion people - please explain that rationale ? How can it be one thing and then another in the same instance ? How can it be a living individual in one instance, and not in the other ?
Cougar ? Gobbler ? Any takers on explaining that one ?
Charlie P - you wondering why this kid wsan't charged with rape like I am ? 16 year old girl, 5 months pregnant ...
No I'm not wondering.Read that staute again. Age of consent is 17 and the partner was not more than three years older than the victim and of the opposite sex;
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I'm having difficulty figuring out why all these new "fetal homicide laws" , which directly conflict with Roe vs. Wade , are allowed to go on the books unchallenged . Murdering fetuses is the same regardless of how it's done or who does it . If fetal homicide is now a crime then every abortion clinic doctor is now in the crosshairs , regardless of what Federal law says . I wish these folks would make up their minds ! [:@]
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Stealth, get off your key board and hit the streets. I have never met anyone that I thought could change anything in the world except posibly you. You are wasting you time and effort here. Here is a landmark case for you to use.
Its simple Stealthycat. The mother did not choose in this case, the idiot boyfriend did.[&:]
Seriously its a conflict for sure but I have come to this conclusion. Although it takes the male and female to conceive a baby, until birth the male is done. The female must carry the child through birth. All the guy has to do is grin, point and exclaim I got her pregnant, I'm going to be a father. His work don't start until after birth helping pay the expenses of child rearing along with the care. Until birth its the mother's problem.........and her choice.
Charlie P - I see, I thought it was just a consentual thing under 17 but there age tied to it too. Okay.
stork - You don't know that I don't do you ? What stands out the most about your post though .... you cannot comment on how it can be murder one way and not the other, can you ?
Cougar -
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Seriously its a conflict for sure but I have come to this conclusion. Although it takes the male and female to conceive a baby, until birth the male is done.
Is that mainstream society taking the responsibility away or do you believe it shouldn't exist ? I don't believe that ... I think that if I got a woman pregnant my health care would cover her - her needs during pregnancy would be my monetary and paternal responsibility and I believe courts to some degree do enforce those - don't they ?
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The female must carry the child through birth. All the guy has to do is grin, point and exclaim I got her pregnant, I'm going to be a father. His work don't start until after birth helping pay the expenses of child rearing along with the care.
Again, I think the the father mu st provide prenatal monetary responsibility to the woman, doesn't he ? Lets say he doesn't .... where does that burden fall when it comes to paying for the pregnancy, the medication, the checkups, doctors visits etc ? If not the fathers responsibility (assuming the mother has no health care of her own) then society absorbs it ?
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Until birth its the mother's problem.........and her choice.
Uh, actually, no, its not. As we saw in the Salt Lake City case, a woman can't just do whatever she wants to with her unborn. Any kind of abuse at all is considered the murdering of an individual human life - just like what this guy did - and punishable by a lenghty prison term when found guilty of murder/homocide/manslaughter.
And I agree with those laws yet it still stuns me that the only difference in women who kill their unborn babies by neglect and women who have them killed by surgical procedure is the methods used.
I think any aborted baby is a sad thing. Although it may not make sense to you, up to a certain point in time...its less so. I don't have a time frame in mind, but for example: I don't see the morning after pill as a big deal.
Some say as soon as conception has taken place its a baby....I disagree. Perhaps a baby-to-be has been conceived, but its not developed yet.
stork - You don't know that I don't do you ? What stands out the most about your post though .... you cannot comment on how it can be murder one way and not the other, can you ?
No, I don't know if you do or not. I believe that you do some but would bet that you could do more(although I wouldn't bet very much against you).
I agree with you! Either it is murder or it is not and these states need to deside. I hate the double standard too! Just because we don't agree on the start of life doesn't mean that I disagree with you on this.
Has the fetus become a viable human yet at five months? I don't know. My guess is that it has but that is only a guess.
I think any aborted baby is a sad thing. Although it may not make sense to you, up to a certain point in time...its less so. I don't have a time frame in mind, but for example: I don't see the morning after pill as a big deal.
Some say as soon as conception has taken place its a baby....I disagree. Perhaps a baby-to-be has been conceived, but its not developed yet.
You and I agree on much on this issue Cougar, but the flaw in your argument is that you cannot say when a baby is a baby, by your own admission. To that I would only ask one question - what is a pregnancy ? Without two living human individuals, there is no pregnancy, is there ?
Pro-abortion groups love people who are indecisive about when life begins. Not picking on you Cougar, but its true. A lot of people are disgusted with abortion, think its sad, think its wrong ... yet agree it should be legal because they can't submit ideas that say why. [X(]
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I agree with you! Either it is murder or it is not and these states need to deside. I hate the double standard too! Just because we don't agree on the start of life doesn't mean that I disagree with you on this.
Thats another thing ... most people who AGREE with abortion also agree it should not be done after XXX time frame. Okay, cool, lets all get together and decide the when and fight to have Roe vs Wade appealed, right ? You with me ? Lets ban abortion past ... say, 4 months. Agreed ?
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Has the fetus become a viable human yet at five months? I don't know. My guess is that it has but that is only a guess.
Now you know viability isn't what makes something alive ...
Pro-abortion people - please explain that rationale ? How can it be one thing and then another in the same instance ? How can it be a living individual in one instance, and not in the other ?
To me it's a fetus until it enters the world and breathes on its own. Texas is out of line, although it doesn't surprise me.
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