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Old 04-17-2004, 10:59 AM   #1
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Default Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

Iraqi Gunmen Offer to Swap U.S. Soldier

1 hour, 51 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!

By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - An American soldier missing for a week was shown unhurt but clearly frightened in an Arab television broadcast in which the 20-year-old was surrounded by masked gunmen who offered to exchange him for imprisoned Iraqi fighters and claimed they had more hostages.

There was no sign of what happened to a soldier who disappeared with Pfc. Keith Maupin after their convoy was attacked April 9 outside Baghdad during a wave of kidnappings blamed on anti-U.S. insurgents.

In Fallujah, west of the capital, Iraqis and U.S. officials held their second day of direct negotiations Saturday aimed at stemming violence in the besieged city. About a dozen representatives of the city met with top U.S. and civilian leaders.

"Things were very quiet in Fallujah last night, which means we are succeeding," said Hashem al-Hasani, a representative of the Iraqi Governing Council who has been mediating between the United States and city representatives.

U.S. commanders moved forces from a key bridge across the Euphrates River that also controls access to the city's hospital.

"There are a lot of risks that we accept by pulling away from the bridge so it will be a gradual process," said Col. Tom Toolan, commander of the 1st Marine Regiment.

The footage of Maupin, aired Friday, showed him in a floppy desert hat, sitting on the floor and nervously looking around. Men whose head were covered with keffiyeh scarves stood nearby.

"My name is Keith Matthew Maupin. I am a soldier from the 1st Division," he said, looking into the camera. "I am married with a 10-month-old son. I came to liberate Iraq, but I did not come willingly because I wanted to stay with my child."

The footage was aired during a day that saw several important Iraq developments. In Washington, President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites), lead allies in the coalition that ousted Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), endorsed giving the United Nations (news - web sites) broad control over Iraq's political future.

T the country's leading Shiite cleric warned the United States against entering the holy city of Najaf to capture a radical cleric wanted for murder.

In the video of Maupin, one of the gunmen was heard saying: "We are keeping him to be exchanged for some of the prisoners captured by the occupation forces."

"Some of our groups managed to capture one of the American soldiers, and he is one of many others. He is being treated according to the treatment of prisoners in the Islamic religion and he is in good health," the gunman said on the tape, a copy of which was dropped off at the U.S. Embassy in Doha, Qatar.

Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senor said there would be no negotiation with the insurgents about releasing hostages.

Maupin, of Batavia, Ohio, went missing with Sgt. Elmer C. Krause, 40, of Greensboro, N.C., after their convoy was attacked. They are assigned to the Army Reserve's 724th Transportation Company, based at Bartonville, Ill, and Krause's fate was unknown.

Maupin was the first U.S. serviceman and second American confirmed kidnapped in a recent wave of abductions in Iraq.

Two ***anese were freed Saturday after three days, ***an's Foreign Ministry said. But the capture of the human rights worker and freelance journalist had never been officially confirmed.

Seven private U.S. contractors also disappeared after the convoy attack, including Thomas Hamill, a 43-year-old truck driver from Mississippi, the only other American known to have been captured. American experts were working to determine whether four bodies discovered west of Baghdad were the remains of some of the missing.

In the latest bloodshed, U.S. troops skirmished with Shiite militiamen near the southern city of Kufa; five Iraqis died. In the north, mortars fired by insurgents killed eight Iraqi civilians in Mosul.

In the Fallujah negotiations, the top civilian negotiator had warned Friday that time was running short for talks.

"I must be candid ... time is limited," said Richard H. Jones, deputy director of the U.S. coalition authority. "We cannot just sit and allow the situation to continue the way it is."

Iraq's top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, warned the U.S. military against entering the holy city of Najaf to capture cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Negotiations were under way to find a compromise to avert an attack on Najaf that could spark outrage among Iraq's Shiite majority.

U.S. Maj. Gen. John Sattler said the 2,500 U.S. troops deployed on the edge of the southern city would not move in for now. Negotiations are under way to find a compromise to avert an attack on Najaf.

"Right now we are respecting that. But this has got to come to a head one way or another," Col. Dana J. H. Pittard, commander of the soldiers surrounding the city, said Friday.

Al-Sadr, took a defiant tone, preaching while wearing a shroud symbolizing his willingness to die and warning that negotiations were near collapse.

"I am ready to meet martyrdom for the sake of Iraq," al-Sadr said Friday.

At the Maupin home in Ohio, 15 miles east of Cincinnati, a friend read a statement from the family but declined to answer questions.

"We'd like to say, `Matt, we love you and we can't wait until we get to hug you again,'" said Carl R. Cottrell II, the boyfriend of Maupin's sister. He wore a yellow ribbon pinned to his shirt and was flanked by military officers.

Top U.S. military officials said Friday they are trying to determine any organization behind the wave of abductions of foreigners in Iraq.

In investigating the various abductions, the U.S. military has seen "loose coordination" among them, said Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy head of operations in Iraq.

However, another top military official Baghdad said there was no information yet on who all the captors were and no evidence central organization.

At least 15 foreigners, according to an Associated Press tally, remain held or unaccounted for in the recent wave of abductions.

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I understand that this kid's scared, but he most certainly did go willingly as he signed his enlistment contract and voluntarily raised his hand and took his oath of enlistment. Based on his above quote (in bold), I personally think that his statement provides aid and comfort to the enemy and if he's rescued or freed I believe he should be court-martialed. Sometimes it's ones duty to keep their damn mouth shut, regardless of the consequences. He just gave all the rest of the resistance something to rally around, which will probably cost us additional American lives.

What do you think?

Mike
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Old 04-17-2004, 12:09 PM   #2
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

Quote:
"My name is Keith Matthew Maupin. I am a soldier from the 1st Division," he said, looking into the camera. "I am married with a 10-month-old son. I came to liberate Iraq, but I did not come willingly because I wanted to stay with my child."
I don't have any problems with what he said. I agree that he probably should have kept his mouth shut, but I have never been captured by the enemy and held at gun point either.

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Sometimes it's ones duty to keep their damn mouth shut, regardless of the consequences
I think that is pretty easy to say if you don't have guns pointed at you and your own life is in danger.
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Old 04-17-2004, 12:13 PM   #3
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

Well, he has certainly NOT behaved in accordance with the Code of Conduct, in that he made statements beyond name, rank & service number. I find the fact that he identified his unit to be quite reprehensible. [&o] At the very least, his conduct requires an Article 32 investigation!
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Old 04-17-2004, 12:15 PM   #4
 
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

No offense intended, but I think your argument is pretty ignorant. This man has been over there risking his life for YOU and me and is currently being held prisoner by the enemy and you sit here in your comfortable surroundings and criticize him. That's pretty damn sorry if you ask me.

Regardless of what he said on camera, you cannot fault him. As Jorgy said, it is easy to say that someone should "keep their damn mouth shut regardless of the consequences" when you're not the one being held by these people. Who knows why kind of threats they have made against him? Remember Daniel Pearl? These people are savages.

Frankly, I find your willingness to sit behind a computer and criticize current American POWs a bit disgusting.
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Old 04-17-2004, 01:02 PM   #5
 
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

I'm not sure what the "current" rules about these things are, but the business about Name, Rank and Serial number went out the window years ago.

There was a time when the information gained from a prisoner was used to determine troop strengths and movements, Now, all the enemy needs to do is turn on CNN and they will have more information than any ground soldier could give them.

No, Todays interogation is primarily for the benifit of a camera, or more specifically, propaganda. It would seem pretty obvious that the captors were gonna keep busting this soldiers chops untill he said something "Negative" about his role in Iraq...And all told, this business about wanting to be home with his child was pretty smart...He did'nt denounce the cause itself,,,and in the end, he likely saved himself some pain.

A few other things to remember; our enemy did'nt sign any geneva convention papers, they do bad things to prisoners.

I can only speak about the first time we were in the sand box, but I suspect things are much the same now...But the basic rule then was...Don't give em anything but your name and rank...If and when things got bad enough,,,give 'em a little info. It did'nt need to be true, but just something to make 'em stop. In other words, don't volunteer anything, but don't get yourself maimed or killed either.

The guy is in a bad situation, all we know about what he's up against is what we see in a thirty second sound bite...

Anyone who has negative feelings towards him or the cause is following the road that the terrorists want you to.
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Old 04-17-2004, 04:29 PM   #6
 
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

i dont think an investigation is needed. I know if i had a wife and kid and i was being held at gunpoint, i would probably say something. Who are we to judge him? like bengarret said, look at daniel pearl.

he who is perfect or has served over there can throw the first stone.

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Old 04-17-2004, 07:47 PM   #7
 
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

It dawned on me a little while ago...The UCMJ has articles relating to this...Something about "Conduct unbecoming of a prisoner" or some such name.

They are pretty openended and take into account for many of todays situations.
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Old 04-17-2004, 11:58 PM   #8
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

Quote:
I think that is pretty easy to say if you don't have guns pointed at you and your own life is in danger.
Quote:
This man has been over there risking his life for YOU and me and is currently being held prisoner by the enemy and you sit here in your comfortable surroundings and criticize him. That's pretty damn sorry if you ask me.
So we'll add cowardice in the face of the enemy to the list.

While I never had the "pleasure" of serving in combat, I sure as heck did earn my right to speak out about this mans conduct as I also did serve this country honorably. I did my time, and I sacrificed alot to do it and I'm darn proud I did. While I was in the Corps I know for sure I was taught the Code of Conduct, just like he would have been in the reserves. In fact I carried a little card in my wallet with the Code of Conduct on it whenever I was deployed.

His statement on national TV serves to motivate the enemy to fight harder, while at the same time further undermining support here at home. His statement is like throwing gasoline on the "yankee go home" fire here and in theater.

And just because our enemies didn't sign a treaty regarding the laws of war and may use illegal prisoner interrogation techiniques does not excuse his conduct. His job, his DUTY, was to not make such a statement, even under the threat of torture and death. His comment will probably indirectly cost another soldier or Marine his life because of the boosted morale of the opposition forces stemming from this incident. THAT is unexcusable.

I stand by my original assessment that he should, if released or rescued alive, be courts-martialed, or at the very least issued Non-Judicial Punishment for his conduct.

Mike

Here's the Code of Conduct with brief explanations of each article:

Article I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

Explanation: Article I of the CoC applies to all Service members at all times. A member of the Armed Forces has a duty to support U.S. interests and oppose U.S. enemies regardless of the circumstances, whether located in a combat environment or in captivity.

Article II


I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

Explanation: Members of the Armed Forces may never surrender voluntarily. Even when isolated and no longer able to inflict casualties on the enemy or otherwise defend themselves, it is their duty to evade capture and rejoin the nearest friendly force. Surrender is the willful act of members of the Armed Forces turning themselves over to enemy forces when not required by utmost necessity or extremity. Surrender is always dishonorable and never allowed. When there is no chance for meaningful resistance, evasion is impossible, and further fighting would lead to their death with no significant loss to the enemy, members of Armed Forces should view themselves as "captured" against their will versus a circumstance that is seen as voluntarily "surrendering." They must remember that the capture was dictated by the futility of the situation and overwhelming enemy strengths. In this case, capture is not dishonorable.

The responsibility and authority of a commander never extends to the surrender of command, even if isolated, cut off, or surrounded, while the unit has a reasonable power to resist, break out, or evade to rejoin friendly forces.

Article III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

Explanation: The misfortune of capture does not lessen the duty of a member of the Armed Forces to continue resisting enemy exploitation by all means available. Contrary to the Geneva Conventions, enemies whom U.S. forces have engaged since 1949 have regarded the POW compound as an extension of the battlefield. The POW must be prepared for this fact.

The enemy has used a variety of tactics to exploit POWs for propaganda purposes or to obtain military information in disregard of the Geneva Conventions. The CoC requires resistance to captor exploitation efforts. In the past, enemies of the United States have used physical and mental harassment, general mistreatment, torture, medical neglect, and political indoctrination against POWs.

The enemy has tried to tempt POWs to accept special favors or privileges not given to other POWs in return for statements or information desired by the enemy or for a pledge by the POW not to attempt escape.


The Geneva Conventions recognize that the regulations of a POW's country may impose the duty to escape and that POWs may attempt to escape. Under the guidance and supervision of the senior military person and POW organization, POWs must be prepared to take advantage of escape opportunities whenever they arise. In communal detention, the welfare of the POWs who remain behind must be considered. A POW must "think escape," must try to escape if able to do so, and must assist others to escape.

The Geneva Conventions authorize the release of POWs on parole only to the extent authorized by the POWs' country and prohibit compelling a POW to accept parole. Parole agreements are promises a POW gives the captor to fulfill stated conditions, such as not to bear arms or not to escape, in consideration of special privileges, such as release from captivity or lessened restraint. The United States does not authorize any Military Service member to sign or enter into any such parole agreement.

Article IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

Explanation: Officers and noncommissioned officers shall continue to carry out their responsibilities and exercise their authority in captivity.

Informing, or any other action detrimental to a fellow POW, is despicable and is expressly forbidden. POWs especially must avoid helping the enemy to identify fellow POWs who may have knowledge of value to the enemy and who may be made to suffer coercive interrogation.

Strong leadership is essential to discipline. Without discipline, camp organization, resistance, and even survival may be impossible.

Personal hygiene, camp sanitation, and care of the sick and wounded are imperative.

Wherever located, POWs should organize in a military manner under the senior military POW eligible for command. The senior POW (whether officer or enlisted) in the POW camp or among a group of POWs shall assume command according to rank without regard to Military Service. The senior POW cannot evade that responsibility and accountability.

When taking command, the senior POW shall inform the other POWs and shall designate the chain of command. If the senior POW is incapacitated, or is otherwise unable to act for any reason, the next senior POW shall assume command. Every effort shall be made to inform all POWs in the camp (or group) of the members of the chain of command who shall represent them in dealing with enemy authorities. The responsibility of subordinates to obey the lawful orders of ranking American military personnel remains unchanged in captivity.

U.S. policy on POW camp organization requires that the senior military POW assume command. The Geneva Convention on POWs provides additional guidance to the effect that in POW camps containing only enlisted personnel, a prisoners' representative shall be elected. POWs should understand that such an elected representative is regarded by U.S. policy as only a spokesperson for the senior POW. The prisoners' representative does not have command, unless the POWs elect the senior POW to be the prisoners' representative. The senior POW shall assume and retain actual command, covertly if necessary.

Maintaining communications is one of the most important ways that POWs aid one another. Communication breaks down the barriers of isolation that an enemy may attempt to construct and helps strengthen a POW's will to resist. Each POW, immediately upon capture, shall try to make contact with fellow POWs by any means available and, thereafter, shall continue to communicate and participate vigorously as part of the POW organization.

As with other provisions of the CoC, common sense and the conditions in the POW camp shall determine the way in which the senior POW and the other POWs structure their organization and carry out their responsibilities.

Article V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.


Explanation: When questioned, a POW is required by the Geneva Conventions and the CoC, and is permitted by the UCMJ, to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. Under the Geneva Conventions, the enemy has no right to try to force a POW to provide any additional information. However, it is unrealistic to expect a POW to remain confined for years reciting only name, rank, service number, and date of birth. There are many POW camp situations in which certain types of conversation with the enemy are permitted. For example, a POW is allowed, but not required by the CoC, the UCMJ, or the Geneva Conventions, to fill out a Geneva Conventions "capture card," to write letters home, and to communicate with captors on matters of camp administration and health and welfare.

The senior POW is required to represent fellow POWs in matters of camp administration, health, welfare, and grievances. However, POWs must constantly bear in mind that the enemy has often viewed POWs as valuable sources of military information and propaganda that they can use to further their war effort.

Accordingly, each POW must exercise great caution when completing a "capture card," when engaging in authorized communication with the captor, and when writing letters. A POW must resist, avoid, or evade, even when physically and mentally coerced, all enemy efforts to secure statements or actions that may further the enemy's cause.

Examples of statements or actions POWs should resist include giving oral or written confessions; making propaganda recordings and broadcast appeals to other POWs to comply with improper captor demands; appealing for U.S. surrender or parole; engaging in self-criticisms; and providing oral or written statements or communications on behalf of the enemy or harmful to the United States, its allies, the Armed Forces, or other POWs. Captors have used POWs' answers to questions of a personal nature, questionnaires, or personal history to create improper statements such as those listed above.

A POW should recognize the enemy might use any confession or statement as part of a false accusation that the captive is a war criminal rather than a POW. Moreover, certain countries have made reservations to the Geneva Conventions (reference (g)) in which they assert that a war criminal conviction has the effect of depriving the convicted individual of POW status. These countries may assert that the POW is removed from protection under reference (g) and the right to repatriation is thus revoked until the individual serves a prison sentence.

If a POW finds that, under intense coercion, he unwillingly or accidentally discloses unauthorized information, the Service member should attempt to recover and resist with a fresh line of mental defense.

POW experience has shown that although enemy interrogation sessions may be harsh and cruel, it is usually possible to resist, if there is a will to resist.

The best way for a POW to keep faith with the United States, fellow POWs, and oneself is to provide the enemy with as little information as possible.

Article VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

Explanation: A member of the Armed Forces remains responsible for personal actions at all times. Article VI is designed to assist members of the Armed Forces to fulfill their responsibilities and survive captivity with honor. The CoC does not conflict with the UCMJ, which continues to apply to each military member during captivity or other hostile detention. Failure to adhere to the CoC may subject Service members to applicable disposition under the UCMJ.

When repatriated, POWs can expect their actions to be subject to review, both as to circumstances of capture and as to conduct during detention. The purpose of such review is to recognize meritorious performance and, if necessary, investigate any allegations of misconduct.

Such reviews shall be conducted with due regard for the rights of the individual and consideration for the conditions of captivity.

A member of the Armed Forces who is captured has a continuing obligation to resist all attempts at indoctrination and remain loyal to the United States.


The life of a POW may be very hard. POWs who stand firm and united against enemy pressures shall aid one another immeasurably in surviving this ordeal.
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Old 04-18-2004, 12:19 AM   #9
 
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

Whatever... it was obvious that what he said he was told to say. I doubt very much that he will make it home. We will not negociate with these people. We can't. If he makes it home alive... do whatever... I don't think he will care...

If they court marshalled him, they would never hear the end of it from the civilians or the media. Thus, I don't think they would punish him in any way.

Personally, I think he did fine. I don't think I would do as well. My prayers are with him and his family.
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Old 04-18-2004, 12:25 AM   #10
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Default RE: Captured U.S. soldier, commend or court-martial?

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Personally, I think he did fine.
Tell that to the guys who may now face a freshly motivated enemy, and the families of the guys killed by them. I hope you pray for them too.

Mike
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