On the question of homosexuality and religious values"
I have placed some of these quotes next to others for examination. It highlights the wisdom within and allows the ingrained patina of love and the brilliance of mankind to shine so brightly"truly a proud event for this board.
Warning: Don"t even dare ask these theologians how you can hold up the banner of Christianity while casting vulgar slurs on other sinners unless you wish to be slurred as well.
Also be advised that if you don"t like threads gushing with love, understanding, intellect, and spirituality don"t read this one. It is a truly heart-warming example of how people can live devoid of sin and yet clearly see the sins of others; of how the Ten Commandments are supposedly weighted according to personal belief systems; of how words mean nothing and the only sin in life is homosexuality.
Allow me to present our boards most righteous and learned religious scholars:
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Stealthycat:
Those two things superceed belief and scripture in todays organized churches. I mean, once you get to know a *****"
Where does morality come from VC ? Religion. And this country was founded in Christianity. Because I believe in that particular religion..
laws banning ***** marriage, quuer TV, *****"
"to say a minister is a fag means nothing at all to the minister, he'd take it in stride and laugh it off"
"a redneck, a hillbilly etc - those are very insulting words, they are meant to insult, degrade and belittle""I call 'em like I see em. Homosexuals are *****s, ******s, gays, faries ... just like I am a redneck, a hick, a hillbilly. Should I or anyone else refrain from name calling ? Sure, I suppose"There are no tactics beneath me
(vc1111)".......cast the first stone."
That is SOOOOOOOO old and overused
Homosexuals are not offended if you call them *****, or gay, or ******s etc. Black people are highly offended unless its another black person using the word.
VC - why is the word "fag" figuratively mutiliating another human being? Really? Why? I mean no disrespect when calling someone what they are"
And I really could care less who I offend by saying that either.
"Why is "fag" such a bad word? Are we that PC these days that the "fag" offends people? I don't see your point here, and certainly can't equate the two words of "fag" and "nig..." being in the same boat at all.
"the Bible teaches"
"stand up for what the Bible says"
They are beyond a little different - they are FAGS.
"look what Roe vs Wade did VC. It cheapened the human life"
I've got a homosexual cousin. I suspoect my brother is homosexual.
"stand up for what the Bible says"
regardless if the word ***** or redneck slips into a few sentences or not.
Homosexuals have a very convincing argument - Bibically speaking - if you go into it with an open mind.
"In no way did my posts contradict each other..
its against Chrisitan values and because of that it is wrong, name calling aside or name calling included, your choice.
Fagism, *****ism, homosexualitiyism .... you call it what you want
So it is with most southern people and the words hillbilly, hick, redneck etc. It doesn't affect us, doesn't bother is for the most part. But the words are the same in the way they're used as nig ger is - we just don't let it bother us.
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1eye:
So again let me say i will say what the hell i want anytime about homos& there deseases/ false idols & mans corruptions- anytime - stop me. and dont forget the fag popaganda on the pplof WY& what they do to homos.
I rememeber our discussion on the fag bishop from awhile back-(hidden agendas?) so are you a homo? Maybe still in the closet? - dosnt really matter i would like you no less for it.
"Homosexual is a clinical term? ****** is the same thing but in slang- can it mean more sure if you want it too. Or it just means you areent going to go by whats polticaly correct- like homo or gay.
"Cant really say i understand why ***- anese is so bad
Just like swamp monter& all his bs..still didnt hide the fact that he is a racist punk.
.. I think you could possibly get away with murdering someone if they call you some names- like nig ger, but no there arent any counterparts or other words like it.(****.spic,honkey, himey etc etc - im sure even the auto filter wont notice.(maybe everyone else has diffent feelings of insult?)" It is a long stretch too me to think fag means the same thing
also do see you& vc trying to use persons here religions( christians) as tools aginst them& into excepting homos& that is wrong.
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badshotbob:
This culture is in the process of watering God's message... Could you imagine going to a church that the pastor is a fag?
vc1111:"Does a "moral" lifestyle include the flippant use of slurs and vulgarity against others?"
No. I guess that makes me a hypocrite then - I could care less if someone is gay, but I still don't like fags.
I love fags. I had many of gay friends over the years. They didn't mind being called a fag by the way.
Would I call them a fag to thier face? Probably not.
Or aren't you a ******?
What's the big deal to use the term, "fag"?
its against Chrisitan values and because of that it is wrong, name calling aside or name calling included, your choice.
LukeWoodham was a bookish and overweight 16-year-old in Pearl, Mississippi. An honor student, he was part of a little group that studied Latin and read Nietzsche. Students teased him constantly for being overweight and a nerd and taunted him as "gay" or "fag." Even his mother called him fat, stupid, and lazy. Other boys bullied him routinely and, according to one fellowstudent, he "never fought back when other boys called him names" (Holland, 1997, p. 1).
On October1,1997, Woodham stabbed his mother to death in her bed before he left for school. He then drove her car to school, carrying a rifle under his coat. He opened fire in the school"s common area, killing two students and wounding seven others. After being subdued, he told the assistant principal, "The world has wronged me" (Lacayo, 1998, p. 38). Later, in a psychiatric interview, he said, I am not insane. I amangry. . . . I am not spoiled or lazy; for murder is not weak and slow-witted; murder is gutsy and daring. I killed because people like me are mistreated
every day. I am malicious because I am miserable. (Chua-Eoan, 1997,
p. 54)
At Columbine High School, the site of the nation"s most infamous school
shooting, this connection was not lost on Evan Todd, a 255-pound defensive lineman on the Columbine football team, an exemplar of the jock culture that Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris found to be such an interminable torment. "Columbine is a clean, good place, except for those rejects," Todd said. Sure we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It"s not just jocks; the whole school"s disgusted with them. They"re a bunch of homos. . . . If you want to get rid of someone,usually you tease "em. So the whole school would call them homos. (Gibbs &
Roche, 1999, p. 48)
Kimmel, Mahler / MASCULINITY, HOMOPHOBIA, AND VIOLENCE 1447
Ben Oakley, a soccer player, agreed. "Nobody liked them," he said, "The
majority of them were gay. So everyone would make fun of them" (Cullen, 1999).
Athletes taunted them: "Nice dress," they"d say. They would throw rocks
and bottles at them from moving cars. The school newspaper had recently published a rumor that Harris and Klebold were lovers.
Both were reasonably well-adjusted kids. Harris"s parents were a retired
Army officer and a caterer"decent, well-intentioned people. Klebold"s father was a geophysicist who had recently moved into the mortgage services business and his mother worked in job placement for the disabled. Harris had been rejected by several colleges; Klebold was due to enroll at Arizona in the fall. But the jock culture was relentless. Said one friend, Every time someone slammed them against a locker and threw a bottle at them, I think they"d go back to Eric or Dylan"s house and plot a little more"at first as a goof, but more and more seriously over time. (Pooley, 1999, p. 30)
The rest is all too familiar. Harris and Klebold brought a variety of weapons to their high school and proceeded to walk through the school, shooting whomeverthey could find. Students were terrified and tried to hide. Many studentswho could not hide begged for their lives. The entire school was held under siege until the police secured the building. In all, 23 students and faculty were injured and 15 died, including one teacher and the perpetrators.
In the videotape made the night before the shootings, Harris says, "People constantly make fun ofmy face,my hair,my shirts." Klebold adds, "I"m going to kill you all.You"ve been giving us **** for years." What Klebold said he had been receiving for years apparently included constant gay-baiting, being called "*****," "******," "homo," being pushed into lockers, grabbed in hallways, and mimicked and ridiculed with homophobic slurs. For some boys, high school is a constant homophobic gauntlet and they may respond by becoming withdrawn and sullen, using drugs or alcohol, becoming depressed or suicidal, or acting out in a blaze of overcompensating violent "glory" (see Egan, 1998).
3 whites indicted in dragging death of black man in Texas
July 6, 1998 Trial not likely until 1999
JASPER, Texas (CNN) -- Three white men were indicted Monday on capital murder charges in the death of a black man who was chained to a pickup truck and dragged to his death on a rural East Texas road in early June.
One indictment issued by a Jasper County grand jury accuses John William King, 23, of Jasper and Lawrence Russell Brewer, 31, of Sulphur Springs of capital murder. A second indictment by the grand jury names Shawn Allen Berry, 23, of Jasper.
King and Brewer are expected to be tried together, but officials said that Berry's charge may be reduced in a plea agreement. Berry has been a key witness in the investigation.
If convicted, the men could face the death penalty in the June 7 slaying of James Byrd Jr.
The suspects are being held without bond in what authorities call a racially motivated crime. All three suspects have prison records, and authorities have said that at least two have the tattoos of white racist prison gangs. Racist literature also was seized from their homes.
Jasper District Attorney Guy James Gray said the trial for King and Brewer could take place this fall, but it is more likely to begin during the first months of 1999.
Berry to plead innocent
Byrd
Beaumont lawyer Joseph C. "Lum" Hawthorn notified the court Monday that he has been retained to defend Berry. Hawthorn said he expected Berry to plead innocent.
Investigators believe that Byrd, 49, accepted a ride from the suspects as he walked home from a niece's bridal shower. But police believe that instead of taking him home, the men drove Byrd to a wooded area, beat him, chained him behind Berry's truck and sped down a bumpy road just east of town.
Byrd's severed head, neck and right arm were discovered about a mile from where his shredded torso was dumped. A trail of blood, body parts and personal effects stretched for two miles, police said.
According to one court affidavit, Berry told authorities that Brewer sprayed Byrd's face with black paint before he was killed.
In addition to any state charges, federal authorities are considering federal hate crime charges against the trio, which also could make them eligible for the death penalty.
Stay with me now, carp, its going to get interesting.
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The next to speak was Michael Lowe, the grand wizard of the KKK, who began with what sounded like a talk by Rush Limbaugh, "White Americans are being discriminated against." A tirade against affirmative action and "stories" of white discrimination at the hands of "******s," liberals, homosexuals, and Jews followed. Lowe, then, brought up the recent controversy surrounding a TAMU Cadet who was ordered to remove a Confederate flag sticker from his locker. According to Lowe, the Corps' ban on this divisive symbol is just one example of the widespread discrimination that exists against those with southern pride. Southern secession under a Confederate flag was his proposed solution. Lowe continued his diatribe with a southern interpretation of American history since the Civil War, and concluded his speech calling TAMU "a mecca of liberality and misinformation in the hands of Jewish professors."
Flinn and Lowe controlled center stage the remainder of the rally, and their scapegoating and name-calling continued. They referred to homosexuals as perverts, called AIDS "God's just punishment for gays," and asserted that persons with AIDS should be quarantined. Latinos were labeled "*******s," and African-Americans, "savages who think they own the city bus." Euro-Americans were praised for their "superior intellect and culture," and the ignorant notion that people of color had not made any significant intellectual or cultural contributions to the world was voiced. Finally, nearly every problem that plagues modern society from crime to poverty was blamed on those of non-heterosexual, non-European, and non-Christian descent.
Vc I must admit that the gist of your posts on "the epidemic continues" passed over the top of my head. I assumed that you were making a point of showing those who were complaining about others sinning allowing homo-sexual folks to be leaders in a Christian church were sinning in thier complaints by using slurs to describe the sinners they were complaining about.
Vc I don't know if the first topic caused you to ponder this topic or not but it sure dovetails in well and offers good "food for thought" I had been focused on the sinners fussing about the sins of homo-sexuals and not even thinking about the cost of thier sin of using slurs maybe equaling the sins of those they were fussing about in costs to the rest of the world.
Mr-Pirk
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A proud owner of a Flying Vee. Bestowed by the fine Gentleman VC1111 himself.
vc, I have learned over the last few years to pick and choose my debates carefully.
Sometimes I know that I won't be around to continue a debate, so I won't jump in...Sometimes I know that it is fruitless to even begin, and that the end result won't persuade anyones convictions, so I sit it out. Other times, I can hardly contain myself, and jump in with both feet.
I preclude my following statement with the above statement because...It's spring, it's warming up, and I am looking foward to spending the next week or more bouncing around on that big yellow seat of my John Deere.
But here it is;
I've been folowing the several debates that have been going on that has led to the introduction of this thread...And while I don't necessarily agree with every Single point that you have presented...I agree with your overall perspective...
I had been focused on the sinners fussing about the sins of homo-sexuals and not even thinking about the cost of thier sin of using slurs maybe equaling the sins of those they were fussing about in costs to the rest of the world.
You sir, are one smart cookie. Thank you.
Word have meaning. The pen is mightier than the sword (but not the indomitable Sword of Logic).
"VC - why is the word "fag" figuratively mutiliating another human being? Really? Why? I mean no disrespect when calling someone what they are"" -The pathetically sincere words from Stealthycat.
Only words
