logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Politics

Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-11-2004, 07:06 PM   #1
Host of Hosts
 
PABuck_HNTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,778
Default Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

WASHINGTON - Sen. John McCain threatened Wednesday to go to court to force the Federal Election Commission to crack down on mostly Democratic fund-raising groups called "527s," which he said are circumventing campaign finance laws by using massive "soft money" contributions to run TV ads attacking President Bush.



One of those Democratic groups, the Media Fund, financed in part by billionaire George Soros and headed by former Clinton White House aide Harold Ickes, began airing a $5 million wave of anti-Bush television ads in 17 states Wednesday.

The six-member, bipartisan Federal Election Commission is scheduled to vote on May 13 on new regulations to restrict fund-raising by the 527 groups, which are named because they are organized under section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code.

At a hearing Wednesday of the Senate Rules Committee to debate the role of the 527 groups, McCain, a Republican from Arizona who co-authored the 2002 campaign finance reform law that bears his name, voiced anger at what he said was a clear undermining of the original 1974 campaign finance law.

In his testimony, McCain twice threatened to go to court to force the FEC to crack down on 527 groups.

With the unlimited "soft money" contributions to national political parties ostensibly banned by the 2002 Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (BCRA, also known as the McCain-Feingold law), Democrats are counting on the 527 groups, bankrolled by Soros, Real Networks CEO Robert Glaser, labor unions, and others, to mobilize voters.

Related story
Washington Post: A shadow campaign




If Congress allows the 527 groups "to function outside the campaign finance law of 1974, then I think we will be opening the door to a flood of unregulated soft money and we will have a return to the bad old days," McCain said.

"As my 15-year old son would say, "Duh!" " they"re engaged in partisan political activities so therefore they should be regulated," McCain said.

"These groups should not be permitted to shirk their obligations, including those under the campaign finance laws," he said.

If the FEC decided the 527 groups were political committees, then instead of taking $5 million in contributions from Soros and others, they"d be limited to accepting $5,000 contributions from individuals. Corporate and labor union contributions would not be permitted.

The Arizona Republican also denounced FEC Vice Chairwoman Ellen Weintraub, a Democrat, who has voiced opposition to imposing new regulations on the 527 groups before the Nov. 2 election. Weintraub says regulators should not "rush to make hasty decisions."

Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wisc., McCain"s partner in designing the campaign finance law, also testified before committee, criticizing the 527 groups and saying the FEC must not allow the law to be circumvented.

Skeptical FEC chairman
In comments to reporters after the Senate hearing, FEC Chairman Bradley Smith, who was appointed to the commission by President Clinton at the behest of Republicans, voiced skepticism about McCain"s and Feingold's view that the 527s are acting in violation of the law.

FREE VIDEO


" GOP says anti-Bush ad violates spending law
March 10: Republicans claim Democratic groups are in violation of a new law defining what outsiders can spend on political campaigns. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
Nightly News



And Smith added, "even if we (the FEC) were to rope in these groups, nothing would stop George Soros from just hiring Harold Ickes and doing the exact same thing. He (Soros) would not be a political committee, he would just be a really rich guy hiring people directly to do this."

The conventional wisdom is that Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry starts his campaign to unseat Bush at a massive financial disadvantage.

As of Jan. 31, the Bush campaign had $104 million in cash on hand, more than 50 times as much as the Kerry campaign had.

But if the 527s do their job, Kerry will be on equal footing or better with Bush on the financial playing field. The 527 groups" Bush-bashing TV ads, as well as their voter identification and mobilization efforts, will do much of the heavy lifting for Kerry in the period between now and the Democratic National Convention, which begins on July 26.

The most prominent Democratic 527 is America Coming Together which plans to spend $95 million in the 2004 campaign.

Last year ACT raised more than $12.5 million, with $5 million of that coming from Soros, who said last year that Bush"s rhetoric reminded him of the Germans during the Hitler era. "My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitized me," Soros told the Washington Post.

ACT"s founders and officers include Carl Pope, the executive director of the Sierra Club, and former Clinton administration official Steve Rosenthal, who served as political director of the AFL-CIO from 1996 until 2002.

Working to beat Bush
In its campaign manifesto, ACT vows that it will inform voters about "the extremist positions of the Bush Republican agenda". We will find the exact voters who believe in change but don"t vote, in key counties, key precincts, and key neighborhoods and we will bring the issues right to their front doors."

ACT will work primarily through phone, mail and door-to-door voter recruitment and mobilization.

The Center for Responsive Politics and two other campaign finance watchdogs, Democracy 21 and the Campaign Legal Center, have also urged the FEC to quickly issue new rules which would crack down on the 527s.

"These 527 groups have said that their purpose is to defeat George Bush," Center for Responsive Politics executive director Larry Noble said Tuesday. "Our answer is that they are political committees in which case they are working under the broader legal standard of "promoting, supporting attacking or opposing" a candidate. Therefore the ads have to be paid for with "hard" money " which is limited to $5,000 per donor per election and can not be corporate or labor union money."

ACT"s spokesman Jim Jordan told MSNBC.com Tuesday that no new FEC restrictions are warranted.

"Congress recently engaged in a significant rewriting of the campaign finance laws," Jordan noted, "Congress consciously decided not to impose even broader restrictions on independent political organizations. It was not the purpose of BCRA to chill public debate in issue that matter."

According to the watchdog groups, there is a "fundamental flaw" in existing FEC regulations "that currently licenses a blatant charade. Simply put, the existing regulations completely fail to protect against the improper flow of soft money into federal elections through partisan voter mobilization activities of section 527 groups."

"We vehemently disagree with that," Jordan said. "We are behaving in an entirely appropriate legal and traditional manner."

Kerry's view in 2002
The McCain-Feingold law was supposed to once and for all stop the use of multimillion dollar "soft money" contributions by wealthy individuals, corporations, and labor unions, to political campaigns.

As the Senate was voting on the McCain-Feingold law, Democratic senators voiced high hopes for a new era of reform. Congress needed to act, Democrats said, because big money was corrupting the political process.

"The American people have become almost numb to these kinds of staggering figures, and they have come to expect fund-raising records to be broken with each election cycle," Kerry himself said on March 22, 20002 during the debate over McCain-Feingold. "And, what is far worse for our democracy is that the public also believes that this money buys access and influence that average citizens don't have....We can't go on leaving our citizens with the impression that the only kind of influence left in American politics is the kind you wield with a checkbook
__________________
Hoyt Carbon Element RKT Blackout
Axcel Armourtech HD Sights
Easton Arrows
United Bowhunters of Pa. Member
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
PABuck_HNTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2004, 08:29 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Goose Creek SC
Posts: 1,097
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

It should not be surprising that the Democrats wanted campaign finance reform. They already had a plan for circumventing the rules. What a blatant violation of the principles of campaign finance reform! If Kerry was worth his salt, and he's not, he would come out very strongly against this type of activity and join in the effort to stop it. He won't because it is to his benefit and their money will win influence with him if he is able to win in November.

Bill Lamb
__________________
Praise the Lord, He is worthy
lamb1647 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2004, 06:10 AM   #3
Boone & Crockett
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,458
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

I'm surprised McCain would do this since Kerry is considering him for a VP position.
__________________
You're only one post away from a federal watch list.
Charlie P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2004, 07:03 AM   #4
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 27,602
Default [Deleted]

[Deleted by Admins]
Deleted User is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2004, 04:39 PM   #5
Host of Hosts
 
PABuck_HNTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,778
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

Don't you find it ironic that the radical environmentalist, who hate internal combustion engines and gas-guzzling SUV's, and the UAW, who builds the aforementioned items are both supporters of the Democrat party?

Someone asked this question in another forum and I though it raised an interesting point.

Quote:
Both parties are doing this, anyone who doesn't think so is very niave.
Just can't pass up the oppourtunity to point the finger the other direction? I think you'd bash the Republicans for helping your mother cross the street
__________________
Hoyt Carbon Element RKT Blackout
Axcel Armourtech HD Sights
Easton Arrows
United Bowhunters of Pa. Member
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
PABuck_HNTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2004, 05:45 PM   #6
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Missouri USA
Posts: 5,420
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

Quote:
Don't you find it ironic that the radical environmentalist, who hate internal combustion engines and gas-guzzling SUV's, and the UAW, who builds the aforementioned items are both supporters of the Democrat party?
LOL would'nt that be about like having the brady bunch and the NRA supporting the same party.
__________________
THE NRA, WHERE WOULD YOU AS A GUN-OWNER BE WITHOUT THEM.
GUN-OWNERS, UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.
strut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2004, 01:24 PM   #7
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Goose Creek SC
Posts: 1,097
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

Quote:
GW has broken all fund raising records in all categories in 3 years surpassing Clinton's totals from 2 terms. He's the biggest soft money grabber in recorded history.
He also "rents out" r the L
Both parties are doing this, anyone who doesn't think so is very niave.
Ifferd,

You don't get the point. The basic principle of campaign finance reform is that PACs are limited to the amount of soft money they can accept per donor. By using the 527 "PACs" and individual donor's pouring in milions of dollars each, the Democrats are doing a complete run around the end on campaign finance reform. One 527 group says it intends to spend upwards of $85 million to run attack ads in an effort to defeat President George Bush in 2004. That is $85 million of money Kerry doesn't have to raise and advertising he doesn't have to pay for, and doesn't have to say "This is John Kerry and I approve of this ad." Although, he will be jumping with glee each time one of the attack ads airs.

The funds that Prsident Bush has raised are not outside the boundaries of the campaign finance reform laws. He, as other candidates, can opt for federal matching funds, or he can decide he desn't want them. Bush opted out for federal matching funds in both the 2000 and 2004 election cycles. That permits him to raise funds from soft money sources and does not limit how much he can raise.

Kerry, by the way, did the same, but he has not been nearly as successful in raising funds. If the Democrats did not do the end around 527 fund raising, the race would for all intents and purposes already be over!! Kerry cannot come close to matching President Bush's campaign war chest.

And for whoever suggested it, I doubt there is any scenario under which Senator McCain would be the VP running mate of John Kerry. McCain IS a Republican, albeit at times a Maverick. But he is for the most part a Conservative to Moderate Republican. No way he could stomach John Kerry and what his presidency would mean to this nation. Look for him to go after the 527 committees in court!!

Bill Lamb
__________________
Praise the Lord, He is worthy
lamb1647 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2004, 04:29 PM   #8
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fayetteville AR. USA
Posts: 684
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

Pleeeze throw these GOP minions a crying towel I'm drowning in tears. I'm sure the GOP would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Don't wet your pants boys, * hasn't lost the election yet. When the big nasty boils start appearing on the left side of his face, then it's time to start biting your nails.

Rem. 222
Rem. 222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 05:02 PM   #9
Host of Hosts
 
PABuck_HNTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,778
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

Quote:
Pleeeze throw these GOP minions a crying towel I'm drowning in tears.

Typical Liberal comments No substance, just sarcasm and inuendo. I think you guys are the ones who are doing all the crying, you have not put forth ONE single idea as a party. All you can do is point fingers and spin issues.


Oh yeah Rem, you'll be disappointed to know, but Ashcroft is going to be OK. Thank God!
__________________
Hoyt Carbon Element RKT Blackout
Axcel Armourtech HD Sights
Easton Arrows
United Bowhunters of Pa. Member
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
PABuck_HNTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 05:07 PM   #10
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Goose Creek SC
Posts: 1,097
Default RE: Dems always find a way to Cheat.......

F4YG,

That has been the Demo mantra for over 12 years now, ever since Bill Klintoon came onto the stage for his 8 years of spin. He would make a DJ jealous with his ability to spin!! You can rest assured he is behind the scenes spinning even as we speak. The only question is who is he spinning for and who against?

Bill
__________________
Praise the Lord, He is worthy
lamb1647 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HOW SOME CHEAT sproulman Northeast 23 12-08-2008 10:15 AM
ETHICS - WOULD U CHEAT? uncle matt Whitetail Deer Hunting 46 04-26-2007 05:42 AM
Budbowhunter! Don't cheat yourself THWACK Bowhunting 1 11-25-2002 12:35 PM

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:36 PM.