I need some advice

[mr-pirk]

Something that has been on my mind for the past month or so ...and a topic that might lighten the mood around here abit.
I have a line on some property out west in the middle of some decent elk country at a price that is very good. The property sits in the middle of a national forest and is 1/2 acre with a 3200 sq ft building on it. The building has eletricty to it and a phone line. The only draw back is no well or any other water but a cystern is a very real possibilty for all but drinking water.
I am 9 years from retirement unless something wierd happens. I want to buy the property to set up as a vacation-retirement-elk camp property. My boss who is also a good friend and I have been going out west for several years togather now elk hunting. I enjoy hunting with him very much. His idea of the ideal elk camp and my idea are a little different. He likes lots of company sitting around the camp fire and I prefer only a couple of people or just me.
The property has a medium to low denisty of elk but almost zero hunting pressure (it is located in a very easly over looked area.). The huntable area is large and could handle 6 additional hunters very easy without upsetting things I think.
My wife isn't very intrested in vacationing out west...she is scared very much by mountian roads. I have family members who would love to go elk hunting with me. My friend does as well.
I can more than afford to buy the property if it sells for what I think it will. I told my friend about the property and he is drooling. He is the type fellow that can be trusted with your favorite rifle or anything else you might have. I trust him as much if not more than anyone else I know. He asked me if I was intrested in going "partners" on buying the property...I told him I was still making up my mind on that side of the issue. He is one of those fellows that more than carrys his share of the load any time of the day. Helping me get my elk out was more important to him the past two years than the time he might be missing hunting. He is more than generous about taking care of his portion of any costs.
Ok Now to the part I need you all"s advice on......To be honest as I can be...I want to buy the property alone...I don't want to be partners in ownership....but I want him to feel he is a full partner in the property.......I kind of want my cake and to eat it too.
The reasons I want sole ownership of the property......I want to be able to limit the number of people who might show up...and have the final veto if there is someone that gets invited that I don't much care for.........Have the final say about what might or not be done to the building and property...(I think outside the box most of the time and it gets so tiresome arguing with folks to try things a new way...and I hate the thoughts of having to have those same arguements in my retirement)..........I smoke he doesn't...we went out west in his truck last year and he seemed to take it as his mission to wean my from smoking on the way out there...very few "pull over so I could smoke" breaks although he dips and knows what it is to deal with a nicotine addiction....I have very much wanted to quit smoking but I haven't...so it still might be a issue at sometime......My friend and his wife don't get along very well and I think one day they will get devoriced...I don't want the property to be tied-up in any of that.
Reasons I want my friend as a partner in ownership.....I want my friend to know how much his friendship has meant to me over the years.....I want my friend to feel as an equal in all things concerned with the elk camp........I want my friend to feel as much "ownership" in the property as I might......I know he is in love with the idea of owning a little property of west to elk hunt on as much as I am....he is the one who started me out elk hunting and he has always tried his best to help me learn how to hunt elk...#1 he has always been a friend to me.
What I am looking for is some in-put from you all as to if you would allow the partnership of ownership. What else might influance your decision making that I haven't thought of???
Thank you for your time...and Thanks for any ideas you might have...this message board has much more than it's share of smart thinkers. It will be at the very least 5 months before I can find out for sure if I can buy the property or not.
Mr-Pirk

[CalHunter]

If you wanted to go partners with your buddy, write a buyback clause in there for you where you get first rights to any sale by him (and vice versa). That way, his wife can tie up the property in a divorce all she wants and you still get to hunt it and eventually buy it back. If you don't want him as a partner, don't buy it with him. As always, talk with a property attorney for more ideas.

[akbound]

Hi mr-pirk,

I'm not entirely sure "off the cuff" what is the best way to approach this. I do know that I've both been told (nearly all my life), and truly believe, the quickest way to "ruin" a friendship........is to enter a partnership. And yes....I know there have been many instances that friends have managed to be successful partners. But for every instance that it works, there are many times more....that don't.

If he is truly as good a friend as you have intimated, I'd consider sitting down and explaining to him.....all those things you just explained to us. A good friend would be able to understand how, and why, you feel as you do. Let him respond and attempt to answer questions or concerns he voices. But in the end......if your "gut instinct" is to not enter into a partnership........listen to your instincts!

You could consider consulting a real estate specialist and see if you can include your friend as a "limited partner"? A limited partnership allowing him, (and only him), lifetime personal use of the camp. (If you are entirely certain that "he" is not the issue!) And have it understood, in writing, that his use is explicitly for "then you state the purpose(s)/privileges that you wish him to have". An example would be for him individually to have hunting privileges for stated period of time.....or annual personal use that doesn't interfere with your use.... or some such example. (It can be more or less inclusive or restrictive.) But insure it is written in the contract that anything "not specifically included in writing....is NOT included"! Also unequivocally stating that he has no financial interest.....or financial resort.....if you transfer/sale/liquidate/bequeath/etc. A limited partnership is really much simpler than it sounds. Just be specific! And do it with a lawyer that specializes in real estate (and understands partnerships)!

In the end, do what you need to.....while being as considerate as you can of your friends concerns.

Good luck!

Dave

[stork]

Two things came to mind real quick and I have not really thought it out so take this for what it's worth.

First: Show your buddy this page and what you wrote. Then tell him you are going to buy the property yourself and give him his own key and a perminant invatation. He should understand.

Second: Don't show him this page. Then tell him you bought/are going to buy the property and give him a key and a perminant invatation. And tell him why. She should understand.

In either case the next step should be to take him along on a week long scouting trip and do some of that male bonding around the campfire.

I'm trying to say that your reasons for buying it yourself are very good ones and a real buddy will understand and stick with you.

If not I am willing to become your buddy and help you scout.

What ever you do BUY THE PROPERTY one way or the other!

[mr-pirk]

Thanks for the advice. You all covered some aspects that I hadn't considered.....Cal Hunter the buy-back clause is a very good idea....Akbound I agree...a man always needs to do business in a business-like manner...the limited partnership is a very good aproach....
Stork I have been considering weather or not to show my friend this thread...since it will be at the earlist 4 months before I can find out if I get to buy the property I am going to simply cut & paste this thread to a file and if the property comes through I will show it to him and if the property doesn't I will just delete the file. Thanks again for the advice.
Mr-Pirk