In an ideal world you would police to prevent crime. This can be done in many ways but education in the community probably would work the best. However, sheer volume of crime and enforcement agencies' budget constraints really don't allow education as their field staff are too involved doing traffic, crime investigation, court duties, donut shops and all the other services that are necessary.
I think that both are true. Some of the LE are used to prevent crimes, and some are used after the fact. I would love it if only a police presence would reduce crime to nothing, but we all know that will never happen.
I don't have any problems with how the typical "policeing" of america goes, and I wouldn't have a clue how it could ever be changed for the better
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Caution - Some posts may contain sarcasim
Good question Bernie, one that is dicussed at every Community/Police meeting.
For years the common practice was to respond to crimes after they occurred and pursue the offenders, arrest and bring them before a prosecuter for charges.
In the course of doing that future crime were prevented based on the fact that most criminal are repeat offenders. A good police force was one that captured all the bad guys after the crime. The idea being that reduced future crime because the criminal fear being apprehended in that community.
Now there is a more pro-active ( Community Orientated Policing) approach where the LEO takes on more of a social worker role, organizing and working with the people in the community to make it a better place to live and providing a constant presence there to enhance relations, develope trust and interact with the residence rather than "enforce" laws full time. The belief is that the community will create better people who will not commit crimes.
The first will always be the responsibility of LEOs and the second is somewhat useful but not a solution. The solution as I see it is a constant presences in the community where it is understood that the LEO is there to protect the lawbiding citizens and will use every legal tool avialible to them to prevent crimes and solve crime. In doing that the LEO will provide all the appropriate social niceties that relate to their job. The LEO must be honest, always within the law and treat every one the same and with respect until given cause to respond differently. He must be highly motivated, knowledgable of the laws and right of others and be an example to all people of what is right about the powers he controls, their freedom.
A simple example is an old practice where if a copper saw someone he did not know in an area and he observed them for a while he would stop them and ask them what their busuness was in the area. If one thinks about this, there a a dozen reason why a copper can stop just about anyone on the street at any time. There are so many crimes and missing persons that just about every one fits some type of description of some one that is wanted. Two thing have occurred. The person is now identified to the LEO and the person knows this fact. It puts them in a specific place at a specific time. Now every time that LEO sees that person he knows who it is where they live, work and a whole lot of other thinks a good street cop can learn in a few minutes.
Now has the LEO violated anyones civil liberties? No but if he continues to stop them after this with no cause he is violating there simple right to move about freely.
So much of what LEOs do is subject to their motive. If it is clear that their motive is to prevent crime and capture criminals there are always less questions as to civil liberties. The clarity or lack there of comes from both the LEO and the Citizen. It come from the purity of the doers and viewer heart (motive).
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Now you have to picture a combination of PeeWEE Herman and Wally Cox but with less muscle tone, trying to be intimidating None of this is funny! Message edited by Cougar Mag -- 1/7/2005 1:16:42 AM >/b]
Bernie, Up until I retired (3.5 years) this was a comon practice by good coppers. We alway kept a "Daily Report " ( list of all missings hold up description etc) about a weeks worth within reach. The thing is you can not just say I think he fit the desciption, you have to say ,See here, This guy matches this description to a T. Learned a lot about a whole bunch of bad guys that way, made a lot of gun bust and drug bust on the related pat downs or open minor warrant arrest and develope a really thick FI (field interview) book.
If you can not link that person to a particular description you're are right, find another reason to stop them or let them walk. You can always just stop them and tell them, "You're not under arrest but if you have a few minutes I'd like to talk to you, You can leave anytime you want." You might get a F$#@ You or they may co operate. That is legal and works also.
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Now you have to picture a combination of PeeWEE Herman and Wally Cox but with less muscle tone, trying to be intimidating None of this is funny! Message edited by Cougar Mag -- 1/7/2005 1:16:42 AM >/b]
I'm under the illusion that police were made for after the fact...
It's people's personal responsibility to "protect" themselves, not to rely on someone else to do it.
But I must admit...that having cops swarming places has to deter crime in some type of way...
But they're here to catch bad guys, not stop bad guys from committing bad acts...
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πνεύμα γ*μισα
"Error never shows itself in its naked reality in order not to be discovered. On the contrary, it dresses elegantly, so that the unwary may be led to believe that it is more truthful than truth itself."
-Irenaeus of Lyon
FroMan,you are absolutely correct. The problem is that even though the Police are not a political body they are at the mercy of politicans and the buget. Therefore their role is in a constant state of change in these times.
Legally libility wise, you hit the nail on the head.
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Now you have to picture a combination of PeeWEE Herman and Wally Cox but with less muscle tone, trying to be intimidating None of this is funny! Message edited by Cougar Mag -- 1/7/2005 1:16:42 AM >/b]
the modern police force was born out of the New York "vigilante groups" , now bear in mind that the term "vigilantism" comes from VIGILANT, which at that time consisteted of normal citizens patrolling the streets due to the huge amount of violent crime and theft that was going on.
It was during Tammany Hall that the police force really took root. It was a way of giving the violent Mic's a job where they could still bust heads and get a paycheck. And "Boss Tweed" still had a hold on them through racketeering etc.
Ultimately, it evolved into the modern police force which is responsible for their own actions. BUT, they DO NOT have to protect you. They can prevent crime through mere presense, or through later arrests, but they DO NOT have to protect you.
(by the way, the reference to the violent Mic's is for ***eter - I was hoping he would return for a little banter)
Question on civil liberties
