[Deleted]

[Deleted User]

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[Carpicon]

So exactly how many acts of terrorism have occurred inside the United States since Sept 12, 2001?

I can't remember.

[logs]

I do not agree with your application to the Homeland Security Act.

Give me one example how YOUR liberties have been reduced.
How have you been effected, not how you may be effected if you engage in terrorist type activity.

[Deleted User]

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[logs]

Iffred"I don't trust politicians in general. The Gov has eneough power as it is - it doesn't need more. "
I agree in general. I don't feel the public is as slow to react or as poorly informed today as say it was when Fightin Joe was calling a lot of people commies. By the way history has proven he was right in most instance, the vast majority. We learn a lot from those "hunts".

My point is that this is a tempory measure and I believe we are involved in a very real War. It may not be conventional as WWI or WWII but War never the less. In times if war we must do certian things to ensure that we don't eventually lose all our freedom to some outside threat.
The simple fact that the expiration date of this act is approaching is evidence that there are controls and limitations. That the government is not out of hand. I believe that it, the Act is a good "police" tool and is needed at this time and until we are ahead in this War. The key is to put an end to it at the proper time and to keep it on a short leash.

[Deleted User]

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[CalHunter]

ORIGINAL: Ifferd

"Those who would sacrifice Liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety."

I think this describes the Homleand Secutiy Act and related laws perfectly.
We've sacrificed even more freedoms in panic mode thinking it might stop terrorism - which it won't.

Please explain which parts of the law(s) you're referring to and how Franklin's eloquent statement applies to them. I've attached a link with the complete language for the Homeland Security Act for your convenience.

Homeland Security Act Text

I know it's become fashionable to bash on the Homeland Security Act and Bush but most people offer very few (if any) specific details or reasons why they oppose this act. I've been reading up on it some and as best I can determine, it is designed to make our borders more secure by tightening up the entry process into our country, doing more background checks on who is coming into our country and stop them if they are known terrorists or associates (should have been done all along), physically preventing any more 9/11 type airliner terrrorist attacks, keeping tabs on immigrants into our country, etc.

I've read your comment about:

No search warrant req.
No legal rights.
Being held indefinitely without being informed of the charges.
No right to a lawyer etc.

I personally feel very strongly about those same rights as I work with them every workday (my job). I know many people are concerned about these rights being taken away from them and used against them for our current criminal laws. I may be wrong on this but, as best I can determine, these suspended rights ONLY apply to acts of terrorism against the U.S., not our regular crimes. So our murderers, drunk drivers, bank robbers, wife-beaters, speeders, white collar criminals, etc. all still have the same rights they've always had.

Now if you happen to be a member of some foreign terrorist organization, come into the U.S. and are planning and/or acting to complete a terrorist act, then you don't get any rights. I don't think we're going to agree on a lot of things ifferd but I highly doubt you're a terrorist. And therefore, it's highly unlikely that you will ever have your liberties personally reduced.

As for Ben Franklin's statement, Ben is as right now as he was back then. We should not give up liberties for temporary safety. We should regulate CRIMINAL conduct but should not interfere with the liberties of law abiding citizens.

[Deleted User]

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[CalHunter]

It sounds like we agree quite a bit on this issue ifferd. Now let me ask you this. If an american citizen is planning a terrorist act designed to kill large numbers of people and is acting with some foreign terrorist group (like hamas for example), do you agree that said american citizen is actually acting as an agent of hamas? If you agree, do you think an agent for hamas (even if he is American) should be given these rights in such a situation?

[Deleted User]

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