I'm not from Canada but I have noticed our Canadian hunters on this board are conservative to a man. From what they've previously posted, they are almost ready for a revolution up north as they simply do not agree with a government that has gone way too liberal for them. In a previous post about a Canadian sniper who made an extremely long shot at about 2,500 yards, most of the Canucks posting here were proud of their countryman and supported the Afghanistan war. I would presume they support the Iraq war also but do not know this for a fact. How about it Canucks? What do people in Canada think about the Iraqi war?
__________________
Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
Some hate us. Here is a thread from a few socialists in another HUNTING FORUM that I had to take issue with. It starts off with mad cow, but also includes the war. I'm not posting this to argue with any Canadians here, just to show how some criticize us while embracing their socialist system...
Eagle Eye
As you all know by know, BSE is suspected in a cow from Washington State.
I hope it didn't go unnoticed that Canada has not banned meat imports from the USA like your other trading partners did. It is possible that a ban could come after the diagnosis is comfirmed by the international lab in London, but we doubt it.
I wish the farmers of America all the best.....we know what it is like to have this happpen!
steve863
Member posted 12-29-2003 03:27 PM
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Well, I'm a little late replying to this, but I find this topic fascinating, as I do with CWD in our deer. It is interesting how one cow gets everyone so alarmed, isn't it? My feeling has been that this disease has already hit our meat industry in one way or another. Our inspections are really not great and who is to say that a cattle owner somewhere in this country hasn't had a cow with such symptoms, but refused to report it knowing that the rest of his herd would probably be slaughtered and his entire operation shut down? It really wouldn't be difficult for a cattle owner to cover it all up. It is hard to say how this will impact our health, since the disease takes years to develop and relatively few cases in humans have been reported. We HAVE fed our cattle all sorts of things in the past that could cause this disease. How or if it will effect us humans years down the road is a big mystery.
Eagle Eye
Member posted 12-29-2003 06:47 PM
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You are absolutely correct Steve. Our Premier actually told the press that the Alberta farmer that had a BSE beef cow should have "shot, shovelled and shut up". The fact is though, it was already out of the farmers hands because the cow had been shipped for processing before it was found to be BSE positive. And the farmer was an American living in Canada....go figure!
The part many up here find really disturbing with the US BSE case though is the fact that once again, there was quick action to "blame Canada". Even before the facts were fully known, your US Ag Rep went to the media and announced that the cow was originally Canadian. Whether it is or not remains to be seen but the current US administration seems to like to blame us for everything....now there is some backpedalling going on down there but the damage to relations has already been done. This is a sad situation....something friends should not do.
steve863
Member posted 12-30-2003 08:06 AM
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Eagle, your right. Could you see us taking the blame for anything, especially under this administration? I can only imagine what you Canadians REALLY think of us! It seems like the U.S will test a lot more cattle because of this incident. Maybe this will shed some light on how many cattle really are infected and if some have already been in the past and have hit the human food chain. To me it is a bit mind boggling that we feed cows by-products of other cows. Aren't they supposed to be vegeterians? We tamper with nature, and as usual it will back-fire. Humans are supposed to be the most intelligent critters, yet most of the time we are too smart for our own good! We are the only species that will destroy ourselves!! That can't make us too smart, can it?
Eagle Eye
Member posted 12-31-2003 11:58 AM
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Steve...the "blame Canada" theme is so common these days that people are starting to get really mad. There was a letter to the editor in the paper this morning that said it all. The writer said that she was surprised we weren't blamed for the California earthquake last week. This at a time when our government is going out of its way to be as helpful and co-operative with the USA as we can be. It is very frustrating.
Doug
Member posted 12-31-2003 12:22 PM
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Well,
Thanks for all the help ousting Saddam after he broke 17 resolutions, the last of which was a last chance specifying that HE SHOW US EVIDENCE THAT HE DESTROYED HIS WMD THAT WE KNEW HE HAD DURING CLINTON IN '98.
There are many here who would love to adopt your socialist policies, but we are not the greatest nation on the face of the earth for no reason.
The mad cow was imported from Canada. How silly would it look if Canada gives us mad cow, then refuses to import American beef because we have the mad cow disease it sent us? Silly enough that Canada didn't restrict imports, I surmise...
steve863
Member posted 12-31-2003 12:44 PM
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Eagle, many nations find our current tactics a little less than appealing. We Americans think that this "war on terrorism" will get rid of our enemies, but we are not smart enough to realize that we are making plenty of enemies along the way. Enemies out of nations who used to be our friends. It will all backfire on us sooner or later I'm sure! Most of the rest of the civilized world (middle east not necessarily included) has realized that war is not the answer. We Americans have not. It somehow boosts our already big egos knowing that we can use our big guns in crushing others! Eagle, I like your down to earth, no nonesense approach to things. Only if we had some more sensible people in this country! Have a happy new year!
Doug, we have now gotten Saddam and most of his gang. We have been in control of Iraq for months now. My question is: Where are these WMD that we knew they had? We went in front of the UN with photos of places where they were being hidden. Don't you think we have at least a little egg on our faces since we were so sure that they had them and knew where they were being kept? We are being laughed at by many around the world for very good reason!
Eagle Eye
Member posted 12-31-2003 06:29 PM
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Doug...your response is rather typical. I am sure Bush and his hawkish bosses in those ivory towers of corporate America are pleased at your support for their agenda.
I won't get into the war with Iraq again...it has been dealt with extensively in past posts. But I will say if you were to realize why your country invaded Iraq, you would see why we did not follow. We did help with Afghanistan and I believe that shows that we support our friends... when the need and cause is just.
Before you go calling us socialist, have you looked at your own country lately? Don't you have medicade, welfare, social assistance, work for welfare, unemployment insurance, etc, etc, etc. I don't see a lot of differences (other than the fact that we have a better healthcare system) but one that is very noticable is the police state that is rapidly developing down there. Whenever I see cops packing sub machine guns in the streets on the news, I would suggest to you that the terrorists are winning. It might make a few people feel safer but what comes next? Does it really stop them? And what happens next....does Bush suspend the next Federal Election in Nov 2004 because of national security threats?
As for the BSE issue....yes, your Washington State case may have come from here but it isn't proven yet. Fact is, I suspect it more widespread than you want to believe in your own country. Your government is just now implimenting food safety rules for BSE that we setup long ago. In fact, your government copied our rules. But the "blame Canada" issue is very valid Doug regardless of where the BSE originated.
For example, we got blamed for the power outage in eastern Canada & USA earlier in 2003. It was actually caused by a power firm in Ohio. Your government did not apologize for that finger pointing. We got blamed for harboring the terrorists on 9/11 also...then your government discovered that your flight training businesses trained them to fly those planes and they had been in country for a year. I can go on and on but there is clearly a pattern of blame and it is not warranted. We believe it has a lot to do with deflecting blame away from the Bush administration errors.
Anyway, enough of this crap.... HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!
[This message has been edited by Eagle Eye (edited 12-31-2003).]
Doug
Member posted 01-05-2004 12:18 PM
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Some people such as yourselves indeed believe that Bush went in Iraq too quickly fast after only 12 years and 17 resolutions. I don't.
Everyone was blamed for the blackout in the early days of the investigation, Canada was not singled out in any way.
There is a big difference between a tax rate of 50% and one of about 30% to the people who like to have the money they made. I agree we are too socialist here in the US, but our degree of socialism doesn't validate Canada's further degree of socialism.
Be nice to the country whose military you must rely on for your mere existence. You should absolutely be grateful, not hateful!
Most deplorable to me is telling people they have no right to use arms even in their own home to defend the lives of their families.
You refer to a police state here in the US, but fail to realize that most of us, me included, have never seen a gun used in a threatening manner on the streets. And I live between Baltimore and DC. You can bet, however, that if someone breaks into my house and tries to harm my family, I will shoot first and ask questions later. On the whole, Americans believe that we don't have to rely on "please don't hurt us" to save our lives...
Eagle Eye
Member posted 01-05-2004 02:04 PM
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Doug, it isn't the resolutions or the torture or Gulf War 1991 or whatever. The problem we have (and the latest poll shows the majority feel this way up here) is that the USA does not follow it own set of values. You make up the rules as you go along. For example, starting today, you are finger printing anyone entering your country that needs a visa. That is the kind of stuff Soviet Russia was known for. Police State! I would never allow it up here..we do that to criminals, not tourists. (I bet your citizens would scream bloody murder if they were finger printed going to a place like Mexico).
Yes, Doug, we dam well were blamed for the blackout...within two hours actually. I watched the press conference live wwhen it happened. (We weren't blackout). I also watched Colin Powell blame us for harboring the 9/11 terrorists. The next day he issue a statement retracting his statement....but no apology of course.
The issue of taxes has been investigated many times by your think tanks. Only the top 15% of Amercians are better off than we are when you make comparisons using buying power. The reason of course, if the cost of medical care you have to pay out. It is a very costly system you have, the most costly in the world yet according to experts, it isn't the best system by a long short.
We are not hateful to the USA. We just don't like how you treat your neighbors...there is a difference. As for protecting us, I'll give you that. But I would suggest you do so for selfish reasons.
In Canada, you can use deadly force to protect yourself or someone else's life. You just can't use it to protect property. I don't think a death sentence is warranted for a kid doing a B&E....neither do our law makers.
Sorry for the rushed post but I have to go now.
[This message has been edited by Eagle Eye (edited 01-05-2004).]
Doug
Member posted 01-06-2004 08:39 AM
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I responded to this yesterday, but for some reason it didn't post...
You might find this hard to believe, it's a stretch, but sometimes criminals get fake ID's. Can you believe that? Now couple that with the fact that in today's world, post cold war Soviet era, WMD's that can kill millions of people can be concealed in something as small as a briefcase. Now mix in the fact that terrorists hate US freedoms and want to harm Americans. Proof of that is in the fact that they have committed unprovoked attacks several times before, including 911. National security demands that we do something to try and identify those that want to harm us. I can see how you Canadians weren't attacked, so you don't understand the importance of security in America. Heck, the terrorist that was stopped when trying to enter the US just before New Year's of 2000 waltzed right through Canada on his way to attempt killing American citizens...
As for the taxes, I would rather spend $1 of my money on my family than have the government take it, trim it to .70 after running it through the beauracracy, and spend it on what IT thinks it should be spent on. Even with two young kids and doctor's office visits every week with copays, I am much better off than paying an additional 20% of my salary and having free copays.
Within hours of the blackouts, we saw fingerpointing to the Northeast, Midwest, Canada, everywhere. You weren't the only ones to blame...
About gun control... So you can protect human life but not property. Hmmmm. So if someone breaks into your house, I guess you have to ask them if they intend to harm you and your family, or are just there to steal your personal property. The answer will determine whether you can use force or ask them to please hold on while you call the police. Wow! That's nice. Here in America, criminals sometimes lie, and it can cost you your life. I didn't realize our socialist north practiced such idealism.
As for our military Canada relies on and takes for granted. You benefit with free national security, so be thankful. Whether we have to provide it to augment our own national security is besides the point. This reminds me of someone who receives charity, but hates the one who gives it, saying "they are going to write this gift off on their taxes!"
[This message has been edited by Doug (edited 01-06-2004).]
Even some hunterws are ignorant Doug. Sounds like Eagle eye is a good socialist.
Quote:
steve863
Member posted 12-29-2003 03:27 PM
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... It is interesting how one cow gets everyone so alarmed, isn't it? My feeling has been that this disease has already hit our meat industry in one way or another. Our inspections are really not great and who is to say that a cattle owner somewhere in this country hasn't had a cow with such symptoms, but refused to report it knowing that the rest of his herd would probably be slaughtered and his entire operation shut down? It really wouldn't be difficult for a cattle owner to cover it all up....
And this should convince us not to ban Canadian beef from our country?
Quote:
Eagle Eye
Member posted 12-29-2003 06:47 PM
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You are absolutely correct Steve. Our Premier actually told the press that the Alberta farmer that had a BSE beef cow should have "shot, shovelled and shut up".
More convincing data.
Quote:
steve863
Member posted 12-30-2003 08:06 AM
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Eagle, your right. Could you see us taking the blame for anything, especially under this administration? I can only imagine what you Canadians REALLY think of us! It seems like the U.S will test a lot more cattle because of this incident. Maybe this will shed some light on how many cattle really are infected and if some have already been in the past and have hit the human food chain. To me it is a bit mind boggling that we feed cows by-products of other cows. Aren't they supposed to be vegeterians? We tamper with nature, and as usual it will back-fire. Humans are supposed to be the most intelligent critters, yet most of the time we are too smart for our own good! We are the only species that will destroy ourselves!! That can't make us too smart, can it?
Doug, this guy isn't really a hunter is he?
Quote:
Eagle Eye
Member posted 12-31-2003 11:58 AM
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Steve...the "blame Canada" theme is so common these days that people are starting to get really mad. There was a letter to the editor in the paper this morning that said it all. The writer said that she was surprised we weren't blamed for the California earthquake last week. This at a time when our government is going out of its way to be as helpful and co-operative with the USA as we can be. It is very frustrating.
I don't dislike Canada and actually enjoy hunting up there but who are they kidding? Where have they been so helpful?
Quote:
Doug
Member posted 12-31-2003 12:22 PM
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Well,
Thanks for all the help ousting Saddam after he broke 17 resolutions, the last of which was a last chance specifying that HE SHOW US EVIDENCE THAT HE DESTROYED HIS WMD THAT WE KNEW HE HAD DURING CLINTON IN '98.
Quote:
steve863
Member posted 12-31-2003 12:44 PM
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Eagle, many nations find our current tactics a little less than appealing. We Americans think that this "war on terrorism" will get rid of our enemies, but we are not smart enough to realize that we are making plenty of enemies along the way. Enemies out of nations who used to be our friends. It will all backfire on us sooner or later I'm sure! Most of the rest of the civilized world (middle east not necessarily included) has realized that war is not the answer. We Americans have not. It somehow boosts our already big egos knowing that we can use our big guns in crushing others! Eagle, I like your down to earth, no nonesense approach to things. Only if we had some more sensible people in this country! Have a happy new year!
Doug, are you sure this guy is a hunter? I could go on with the partial posts and commentary but both of these guys are out to lunch. You were the only sane oen posting on that thread.
__________________
Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
I'm not sure if they're hunters or not, but the forum is set up almost exactly like this one. There's probably a good chance that they do hunt.
How about Eagle's saying that we should only fingerprint and photo criminals. As my response suggests, the idea of a criminal getting a fake ID, thereby circumventing his security suggestions seems to be beyond him. But why would he care anyway, it was 3,000 Americans who lost their lives, not Canadians.
I don't mind arguments that are backed up with logic, but found that not to be the case with them. There are about 3 of them on there trying to spew all kinds of BS. I don't have time to answer accordingly, so for any of you in here to drop in on that thread, it would be nice to educate them. No wonder that site is going downhill. It's polluted with idiots!
Canadians veiw on war in Iraq
