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Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

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Old 06-19-2017, 09:18 AM   #31
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Let me guess. No one numbered the control wires or included a 50 page wiring diagram for the equipment.
There were numbers on the junction block, nothing else was marked, every wire in there was one color (blue) except the supply wires. There was likely a plan someplace stuffed into a drawer somewhere, there was nothing in the cabinet. Maybe 20% of the entire system did anything anyway, the low pressure warning lights on the air handlers worked and the clogged filter shutdown worked, most everything else was bling.

I'd probably be lost in the states now, I've been working overseas so long. But the basics are the same where ever you go, just the voltages and the hardware are different.

Talking about rooftops. My employer (who thought he was an engineer) ordered a rooftop unit, this thing was huge, about the size of an average sedan. I have no idea what it was rated at. It was installed by contractors. Coldest winter in twenty years (-20), they needed the A/C to cool down the computers inside a giant sealed Faraday cage. Poor guy was on the roof in a wind chill of around -50 F for weeks trying to get it to work, I tried to tell him the unit wasn't going to work right outside of the designed temperature envelope, he eventually got pneumonia. They had to run new buses from the basement to the roof for the amps to run the unit. The room they were cooling was maybe 5000 cubic feet and the equipment they were trying to cool didn't put out all that many watts. I guess the guy who ordered that unit had a tiny penis syndrome, I could have cooled that room down with household sized split unit and had a lot of extra capacity. Could have moved it in the elevater instead of needing a giant crane to put it on the roof.

I learned DC electric first, mostly to do with heavy equipment hydraulics systems. Troubleshooting DC control circuits wasn't much different than AC control circuits. Pumps are pumps, refrigeration came easy. Did my apprenticeship as a pipe fitter, pipes are pipes. When I'd get bored I'd try to learn something new.

I was the go to guy for car launchers (delta barracades)
http://deltascientific.com/high-security/barricades/ for awhile. Just lasted a few years, to much travel and a family that missed me.

We called them car launchers, because the guy operating them would occasionaly have a brain fart and hit the raise button when a vehicle was on top of the barrier and not before it got to the barrier.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:58 PM   #32
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I'd probably be lost in the states now, I've been working overseas so long. But the basics are the same where ever you go, just the voltages and the hardware are different.
True, I've had some fun times with 400 volt manufacturing lines shipped from Japan and the wiring schematics that came with it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:48 PM   #33
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d80hunter, the Japanese stuff is childs, play. Wait till you get something from Germany. Talk about over engineering. Redundancy isn't just a word for them. It's a damned religion.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:07 PM   #34
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d80hunter, the Japanese stuff is childs, play. Wait till you get something from Germany. Talk about over engineering. Redundancy isn't just a word for them. It's a damned religion.
Your not kidding, they could over engineer anything. Now on days they are infatuated with electronics, why use a $2 thumb switch when you can use a $20 circuit board with a touch sensor?

My furnace, built in 1953, is still working, couldn't be any simpler. Most of my neighbors are on their 3rd or 4th furnace now ( 5 grand a pop), you really can't troubleshoot them anymore, you can just swap circuit boards out and hope to get lucky. Many people still buy into that newer is better philosophy. I replace a $5 thermocouple every half dozen years and I'm good to go.

We had a major lightening strike not long ago, few things survived in a quarter mile radius, anything electronic was fried. My furnace didn't even notice. The guy across the street had to lay out $300 to replace the electronics in his door bell, no kidding.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:22 PM   #35
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True, I've had some fun times with 400 volt manufacturing lines shipped from Japan and the wiring schematics that came with it.
Over here they keep creeping the line voltage higher trying to get more amps through the same old wires. Eventually the voltage far exceeds the specs for many things and there is a rash of appliance failures. The newer appliances have higher voltage ratings. My 27 year old refrigerator is on a step down transformer.

Really want to have some fun, try explaining to the customer that their brand new machine isn't supposed to smoke and smell like that, it was supposed to be built for export 240 volts but was built with *some* 120 volt components. I guess 240 V means something different in Spanish or somebody reached into the wrong bin.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:03 PM   #36
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i went to one of the top engineering schools in the country. There were many in my class who couldn't tell you which end of the screwdriver to hold. I've also worked with many who had no clue in what they actually taught in class. However, you can find that through out industry. This is why government shouldn't be stepping in to deciding what someone should be earning. Employee wages should be considered private contracts like they were way back in the 1920s. No one else but the employer and the employee should have a say.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:11 AM   #37
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d80hunter, the Japanese stuff is childs, play. Wait till you get something from Germany. Talk about over engineering. Redundancy isn't just a word for them. It's a damned religion.
If I can get some information or tech support things go smoother. Did a Samsung temp control system with all the bells and whistles with no info or anyone who could explain the comm link loop. Ended up drawing it all out and sending it to their tech support recommending providing that information to future installers. That and figuring out how to incorporate Aaon controls to the system with neither Samsung or Aaon having a clue was fun. I always say I should be working for these guys if I have to do their job, it might be time to just do that. If German stuff is harder then I will be ready for some curve balls.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:34 PM   #38
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Curve balls, sliders, sinkers, and 106mph fast balls. It's been quite a long while since I actually applied my electrical and engineering skills so I'm sure some things have changed. Maybe Germany has gotten better with their diagrams and spec sheets. But if they are the same as they used to be, just be ready with the Advil because you are in for a headache on some of their control boards and such.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:46 PM   #39
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Curve balls, sliders, sinkers, and 106mph fast balls. It's been quite a long while since I actually applied my electrical and engineering skills so I'm sure some things have changed. Maybe Germany has gotten better with their diagrams and spec sheets. But if they are the same as they used to be, just be ready with the Advil because you are in for a headache on some of their control boards and such.
My biggest issue with the Germans, is the user manuals are written in twelve languages (for an idiot) and don't really say anything useful,except how not to lose a finger in twelve languages. And the tech manuals are as thick as the Gutenberg Bible and about as easy to understand. Way too much unnecessary information. Then they are really fond of changing the designations in their diagrams, there are at least four different acronym designators for the same three electircal phases.

The user manual for my VW mini van is an inch and a half thick and nowhere does it tell you which fuse does what. Either swap or check them all or get an 8 inch thick shop manual.

The contract to do the job lists every piece and bit down to the last bolt and nut to include size, thread pitch and hardness. The tech manual lists all the certifying authorities (acronyms) for every piece used in the drawings and not in an appendix. The acronyms on the diagrams are alphabet soup. The trick is knowing what to ignore.
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